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post #1 of 34 Old 11-15-2009, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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Relays and power suply

I am going to run 4 relays for my lights. I know that you run a hot wire to your switch and then the load wire to the relay. My question is can I use the power port wire as the hot for all 4 switches or will that be to much of a draw with all 4 relays on?

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post #2 of 34 Old 11-16-2009, 12:05 PM
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I am going to run 4 relays for my lights. I know that you run a hot wire to your switch and then the load wire to the relay. My question is can I use the power port wire as the hot for all 4 switches or will that be to much of a draw with all 4 relays on?
It depends on the total load of the 4 relay coils. You should find the AMP draw of the relay on the label or enbossed into the plastic relay housing. total the Amp draws and that will give you the total load. As long as that total is less than the fuse rating for the power port you wont blow the fuse. However, there are issues when doing this. 1) You shouldn't use the power port for anything else; because the load of the item you plug in may increase the total load beyond the fuse capacity = blown fuse! 2) If in the future, one of the relays developes an internal short it will blow the fuse; but you wont know which relay caused the circuit to blow. If you know how to test the circuit; then it's not a big deal. You can use a low AMP in-line fuse for each relay coil; and use the port circ to supply the power to those fuses/relay coils. Use an inline fuse with a rating slightly higher than the coil rating.

How are you getting power to the lamps after the relay?

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post #3 of 34 Old 11-16-2009, 09:15 PM
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huh? why would you use a positive feed to a relay and then another positive feed to 30 on the relay? im confused I guess. a relay alone to just operate the coil (86 and 85) only needs somewhere in the millivolts to trip the coil. but what you seem to want to do is run the relays coil alone off the power port supply and then use a negative type switch to ground the relay's coil to send power to 87 that makes more sense as I perfer this method due to not having hot wires running all over the place. still a strangly put ???.
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post #4 of 34 Old 11-17-2009, 03:38 AM
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not too sure what you mean by power port but what I did was the same setup as the ef's pod in the writeups section. then tapped the left side cig lighter hot to trip a relay within the cab that relay supplies power to the switches. This makes it so your accoesories can only be turned on when the ignition is switched on. Also by using one of these supplied by the in cab relay you have a block of in cab ignition switched power.

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post #5 of 34 Old 11-17-2009, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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I am calling the left cig lighter a power port

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post #6 of 34 Old 11-17-2009, 10:20 AM
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It should be fine. Automotive relays coils use very little current. I'm pretty sure it on the order of 200 milliamps or less. However you probably do want to include a diode across the coil to insure you do not send a spike back into the JK's electrical system.

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post #7 of 34 Old 11-17-2009, 10:46 AM
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It should be fine. Automotive relays coils use very little current. I'm pretty sure it on the order of 200 milliamps or less. However you probably do want to include a diode across the coil to insure you do not send a spike back into the JK's electrical system.
X2 on this; as long as terminals 85 & 86 are relay coil terms. I'm going to try o post a link to another person's write up of a mod to to relocate the OD switch. He addressed the issue of the diode on the relay, and on page 9 there is a diagrram of what you need to do. Here goes...

http://home.comcast.net/~kingslea1/Jeep/ODMod.pdf

PM me if the link doesn't work; or if you have further ?'s.

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post #8 of 34 Old 11-18-2009, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
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It should be fine. Automotive relays coils use very little current. I'm pretty sure it on the order of 200 milliamps or less. However you probably do want to include a diode across the coil to insure you do not send a spike back into the JK's electrical system.
OK lets hear about the diode. How and where.

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post #9 of 34 Old 11-18-2009, 10:07 AM
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See the link in my post above. BK

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post #10 of 34 Old 11-18-2009, 10:52 AM
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So you're running an individual relay for each light? I've always wired 2 lights to one relay.

I just run in-line fused power to the switch(in the cabin) from the left cig port. Then from the switch to the relay(under the hood), just to trigger it.

Power from the battery through a fuse, to the relay.

Then from relay to the lights. I ground the lights somwhere near their mounting location.

So only the one switch/trigger wire has to run through the firewall. I thought this was pretty much the standard way to wire aux. accessories. No?
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post #11 of 34 Old 11-18-2009, 11:30 AM
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So you're running an individual relay for each light? I've always wired 2 lights to one relay.

I just run in-line fused power to the switch(in the cabin) from the left cig port. Then from the switch to the relay(under the hood), just to trigger it.

Power from the battery through a fuse, to the relay.

Then from relay to the lights. I ground the lights somwhere near their mounting location.

So only the one switch/trigger wire has to run through the firewall. I thought this was pretty much the standard way to wire aux. accessories. No?
You are correct. However; the diode across the coil wires may be nec with the CANBUS system.
Additionally, Running more than one light off the relay is OK as long as the relay, wires, and fuse are rated for the total load of the multiple lights.BK

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PP mod'fd boat sldrs, ARB rr DC's, TERA 44 frt xl hsg,
Sup'r CrMo xls, 5.13 R&P, Reel 1310 DS,
Kilby Evap, Bnchmrk KISS, B&M Trans culr,
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post #12 of 34 Old 11-18-2009, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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OK here is what I am doing.
1. I am splicing into the driverís side cig lighter.
2. I am running this wire to 4 led switches.
3. I am grounding the 4 switches in the cab.
4. I am running 4 wires thru the fire wall.
5. I am connecting the 4 wires to four relays (86).
6. I am grounding the 4 relays (85).
7. I am connecting the battery thru a fuse to the 4 relays (30).
8. I am running 2 wires each from the 4 relays (87) to 2 lights for each relay. (4 sets)
9. I am grounding the lights at the mounting location.
10. I am writing this because I do not communicate well sometimes and people donít know what I am talking about.

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post #13 of 34 Old 11-18-2009, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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You are correct. However; the diode across the coil wires may be nec with the CANBUS system.
Additionally, Running more than one light off the relay is OK as long as the relay, wires, and fuse are rated for the total load of the multiple lights.BK
OK what is canbus? I hope it is not a henweigh or a piecost.

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post #14 of 34 Old 11-18-2009, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
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You are correct. However; the diode across the coil wires may be nec with the CANBUS system.
Additionally, Running more than one light off the relay is OK as long as the relay, wires, and fuse are rated for the total load of the multiple lights.BK
But if you're using a seperate switch and relay, where is the connection to the CANBUS system?

I have my HID headlights wired to a seperate switch (not the OEM one), and then to a relay, which powers my ballasts/lights. Just as I described above. No problems.
I also have my HID fog lamps wired this way, except I use the OEM fog lamp 12v+ to trigger the relay. So I turn on my fog lights with the OEM switch/stalk.
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post #15 of 34 Old 11-18-2009, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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what the hell is a canbus?

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post #16 of 34 Old 11-18-2009, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougnpj View Post
OK here is what I am doing.
1. I am splicing into the driverís side cig lighter.
2. I am running this wire to 4 led switches.
3. I am grounding the 4 switches in the cab.
4. I am running 4 wires thru the fire wall.
5. I am connecting the 4 wires to four relays (86).
6. I am grounding the 4 relays (85).
7. I am connecting the battery thru a fuse to the 4 relays (30).
8. I am running 2 wires each from the 4 relays (87) to 2 lights for each relay. (4 sets)
9. I am grounding the lights at the mounting location.
10. I am writing this because I do not communicate well sometimes and people donít know what I am talking about.
PERFECT! That'll work. You're good to go! Make sure to fuse the wire from the cig to your switches. You should have no problems. You can probably common-ground the 4 switches also, since this is just for illumination of the switch.
Your cig source should be plenty of juice to trigger 4 relays.
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post #17 of 34 Old 11-18-2009, 01:24 PM
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what the hell is a canbus?
The CANBUS system is a networking system used in the JK (and other vehicles) to allow various modules to communicate with each other. These modules include the PCM (i.e. the main "brain" of the vehicle), the TCM (i.e. Transmission Control Module), the Radio, the Instrument Cluster, the headlight switch, etc.

The issue with adding electrical stuff to the JK comes into play with the TIPM (Totally Integrated Power Module). It is the big black box in front of the battery (with the fuses and relays in it). Most of the power circuits coming from this box are not controlled by relays like in older vehicles. Instead the TIPM uses electronic switches to send power out on the appropriate wires. Sending a voltage spike back in on one of these wires may cause problems.

The issue with the voltage spike coming from a relay coil should not be a problem to the system since you are using the power outlet to drive +12V to the switch and then to the relay. When you open the switch, the path back to the power outlet is broken by the switch.

However, I have seen issues with the voltage spike when using switches with LED indicators. The LED is connected to same place on the switch as the relay coil is connected. I have had the LED be burned out by the relay coil voltage spike (it was the fairly big relay). Adding the diode across the coil suppressed the voltage spike and after replacing the switch, everything was good.

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post #18 of 34 Old 11-18-2009, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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WOW you are good.
OK for your next word lets try CANNABIS

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post #19 of 34 Old 11-18-2009, 03:40 PM
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WOW you are good.
OK for your next word lets try CANNABIS
Been there, done that. Now just do this:

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post #20 of 34 Old 11-18-2009, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jdrogers View Post
The CANBUS system is a networking system used in the JK (and other vehicles) to allow various modules to communicate with each other. These modules include the PCM (i.e. the main "brain" of the vehicle), the TCM (i.e. Transmission Control Module), the Radio, the Instrument Cluster, the headlight switch, etc.

The issue with adding electrical stuff to the JK comes into play with the TIPM (Totally Integrated Power Module). It is the big black box in front of the battery (with the fuses and relays in it). Most of the power circuits coming from this box are not controlled by relays like in older vehicles. Instead the TIPM uses electronic switches to send power out on the appropriate wires. Sending a voltage spike back in on one of these wires may cause problems.

The issue with the voltage spike coming from a relay coil should not be a problem to the system since you are using the power outlet to drive +12V to the switch and then to the relay. When you open the switch, the path back to the power outlet is broken by the switch.

However, I have seen issues with the voltage spike when using switches with LED indicators. The LED is connected to same place on the switch as the relay coil is connected. I have had the LED be burned out by the relay coil voltage spike (it was the fairly big relay). Adding the diode across the coil suppressed the voltage spike and after replacing the switch, everything was good.
ok so I understand all this (which is kinda scary in itself) my question for you is this: I am using that same cig plug to trigger a relay (said relay is only triggered by "power port" and draws main power from battery) I use this relay to power 6 LED switches and my CB for now (may add to that later). So according to your explanation I should use a diode before the relay to prevent the relay from sending a spike to the power port? Do these diode come in different ratings like relays and fuses, if so what rating should I look for? I have no previous experience with diodes. Oh an PS the 6 switches dont pass any major load they are wired to separate relays kinda like an S-pod setup. thanx for your insight.

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post #21 of 34 Old 11-18-2009, 07:42 PM
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CAB-Bus and MUX

Yes you can share a common ground and positive feed by daisy-chaining them. This will not be too much draw on you power outlet. I would prefer to go straight to the battery though...just my opinion...

Another thing to take note of about the 07 and up Wranglers, is that Chrysler has implemented what’s known and Multiplex wiring or MUX. The purpose of this system is to reduce the..excuse the crudity here, cluster f**k of wiring that is required in a new vehicle. Basically it allows multiple signals to travel to the various components of the vehicle such as the PCM, TCM, TIPM and the Engine Control Module (ECM) via shared wires.

Things we add such as offroad lights, cb's, radios, remote starts and alarms, fog lights and various other devices can safely be added if we remember to tap into the regular 12v portions of the vehicle wiring and NOT the MUX wires.

IF you were to put a straight hot wire or a straight ground to a MUX wire you could most likely damage components such as the TCM or ECM. I don’t have to tell you that these items are VERY expensive to replace!

I prefer to go direct to the battery for any accessory power! And yes, a relay will definitely cause a "field collapse" and create havoc on your electrical system. A diode will keep that from happening.

That is why our systems all have diodes built into them.
Remember to protect your equipment with the proper fuses.

Have fun and be safe!

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post #22 of 34 Old 11-19-2009, 07:57 AM
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... So according to your explanation I should use a diode before the relay to prevent the relay from sending a spike to the power port? Do these diode come in different ratings like relays and fuses, if so what rating should I look for? I have no previous experience with diodes...
Just about any small one work. Radio Shack sells a two pack of 1N4004 diodes for $1. Just make sure the side with the band is connected to the positive terminal.

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post #23 of 34 Old 11-19-2009, 11:13 AM
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i did something similar
https://www.jkowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3606
my current Jk is the third one i've installed it on and have had no problems with this system. if you want you can order relays with built in diodes, but mine don't have them. i did use one when i did my fan kill switch.

these pics are from my first install but the only changes i've made to the other two installs was to correct the poliarity of the relays as the ones in this install the pic shows them wired backwards across the coil. without a diode it really doesn't matter though.
hope this helps
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post #24 of 34 Old 11-19-2009, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sPOD-guy View Post
Yes you can share a common ground and positive feed by daisy-chaining them. This will not be too much draw on you power outlet. I would prefer to go straight to the battery though...just my opinion...

Another thing to take note of about the 07 and up Wranglers, is that Chrysler has implemented whatís known and Multiplex wiring or MUX. The purpose of this system is to reduce the..excuse the crudity here, cluster f**k of wiring that is required in a new vehicle. Basically it allows multiple signals to travel to the various components of the vehicle such as the PCM, TCM, TIPM and the Engine Control Module (ECM) via shared wires.

Things we add such as offroad lights, cb's, radios, remote starts and alarms, fog lights and various other devices can safely be added if we remember to tap into the regular 12v portions of the vehicle wiring and NOT the MUX wires.

IF you were to put a straight hot wire or a straight ground to a MUX wire you could most likely damage components such as the TCM or ECM. I donít have to tell you that these items are VERY expensive to replace!

I prefer to go direct to the battery for any accessory power! And yes, a relay will definitely cause a "field collapse" and create havoc on your electrical system. A diode will keep that from happening.

That is why our systems all have diodes built into them.
Remember to protect your equipment with the proper fuses.

Have fun and be safe!
Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread and respond! Just look at John's ( the sPOD guy) response. Most importantly; He's trying to direct you folks to the proper way to solve your problems DIY. He's so gracious; let me be the pundant.... Just invest in his system... it will solve all your problems; and most likely provide you with additional accessory power provision you will need in the future! I don't even have mine yet; but I know he has researched the potential problems with the CANBUS system; so I'll have a "turn key" system for my future electrical accessories! YOU CAN TOO!! BUY IT!!! BK

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JKS spg rets., rr spg mnts.
37" BFG KM2, 17x9 MT clssc II, Blstn 5100,
Finishline West RB, LoD FB, SB XRC10
PP mod'fd boat sldrs, ARB rr DC's, TERA 44 frt xl hsg,
Sup'r CrMo xls, 5.13 R&P, Reel 1310 DS,
Kilby Evap, Bnchmrk KISS, B&M Trans culr,
sPOD; Aeroforce, FlashPac, Airaid CAI, Magnaflow relo,
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post #25 of 34 Old 12-22-2009, 11:06 PM
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Ok, sorry so late to the party. I am wiring in a few lights. Some LED strobes, some halogen fogs, etc. I have fuses and relays for all of this, taking power for the actual lights and current for the switches/relays directly from the battery. Not going to wire the LEDs to a relay, they don't draw that much (right?). But is there a diode needed in the LED circuit too?

I appreciate the expertise, sPOD-Guy and will plan to add diodes. However, even though I remember that the stripe end goes to positive and all, what is the "coil", and so where exactly do I solder the diodes in? Also, can any problems be avoided by running all the grounds to a common wire back to the neg battery post (and none to chassis grounds)? Like will this isolate the lights out of the CANBUS entirely?

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