will i need to upgrade my battery? - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 10-28-2009, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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will i need to upgrade my battery?

im getting ready to run 2 12" powerful subs/amp, new head unit w/ GPS, and 4 new speakers. i also have 2 kc lights already. what do you think i will need to do about my battery?
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post #2 of 39 Old 10-29-2009, 04:52 AM
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Benchmark sells a dual battery setup, you'll probably get the flickering lights w/ the bass thing when you turn it up loud...i plan on dual batteries, especially if you're gonna have a winch or aux lights as well.

If it gets up there too much, you could look into an alternator upgrade although i don't know anyone that offers one.

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post #3 of 39 Old 10-29-2009, 08:29 AM
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amps today do not wast the power that they used to, and the jeep has 140amp alternator I thought but just looked through my 08 brochure and window sticker and can't confirm it. I stated on your other thread that you don't have to have one but I would install a 1 farad or larger capacitor (capacitor=battery). this will save you some money, if you want to leave it sit with the engine off with the radio playing then yes it is a good idea to add a battery but with the small system that you are planning to run the stock battery can handle it but if your battery is older and weakening just upgrade it to a larger cca battery of the same size. your question was will you ned to upgrade the battery. ot enough info for a true decision but with what you have listed, no. but what do i know i mostly built vehicles over 5000 watts and up pro class vehicles with extra alternators and multiple batteries. in my own vehicle at one point i competed a vw corrado with over 20 spekers, 6 amps, and other visual effects off the stock battery and 120 amp alternator. it only needed to play 30 seconds of music at full volume at competition but it did fine for 3 years before i had to replace the battery.

im just trying to save you some dough, if you have it, hell yeah jump on the dual battery set up! you probably want to invest in a TON of dynomat material and may want to think of lining the inside of the hardtop if that is what you have. also if you have a bumper with a tire carrier option to get the wheel off the gate you could mount your amp on the gate with cool amp rack. did a ton of jeeps back in the day and they offer some interesting challenges. i would suggest in linex'ing the sub box or fiberglassing over it due to water getting to it. and monting the subs down so vandals/thieves cant steal them or damage them. have fun and post pics! also dont forget that you have at least 3/4 cubic foot of airspace that you can use with the drop section of the floor infront of the jack compartment.
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post #4 of 39 Old 10-29-2009, 10:44 AM
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JMO..

Dude, as far as the battery goes, I WOULD replace it (provided it's the original), as there's been countless issues (posted on various forums) with the original batteries failing with No Warning.

People who own newer jeeps, just climbed into their rig one day, turned the key and "click".
Although Their battery reads 12v on the meter it's gone!

Now you're going to put a beefed up stereo system w/hard hitting bass etc. on a battery, that's just waiting for an excuse to piss you off.

Yeah, you might get away w/it for a bit, but where might you be when it dies is the question.???

Hope You Have AAA!

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post #5 of 39 Old 10-29-2009, 01:12 PM
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Two words: (well, maybe a few more words)
Odyssey
http://www.odysseyfactory.com/batteries.html
or
DieHard Platinum P-1

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post #6 of 39 Old 10-29-2009, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sPOD-guy View Post
Two words: (well, maybe a few more words) Odyssey
Or maybe TWO Odyssey batteries...


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post #7 of 39 Old 10-29-2009, 02:56 PM
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Man that looks like a fire hazard waiting to happen, wher is the circuit breaker or fuse off the positive terminals for all of that?

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post #8 of 39 Old 10-29-2009, 05:40 PM
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or maybe two optima yellow tops


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post #9 of 39 Old 10-29-2009, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob4607 View Post
Man that looks like a fire hazard waiting to happen, wher is the circuit breaker or fuse off the positive terminals for all of that?
Fuses... you want fuses???

Both the positive and negative side are fused. I originally planned to fuse just the negative side because it is simpler that way but I ended up with too many connections to the positive side that it was easier to add another fuse and use it as a binding post.


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post #10 of 39 Old 10-29-2009, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sPOD-guy View Post
Two words: (well, maybe a few more words)
Odyssey
http://www.odysseyfactory.com/batteries.html
or
DieHard Platinum P-1
Odyssey makes the Diehard platinum and its cheaper by $20 I believe


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A Jeep just zipped past my house and I could swear I heard the driver yellin:

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post #11 of 39 Old 10-30-2009, 05:44 AM
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Unless you plan on running the amp at full volume with the engine off all the time, run your stock battery to the ground before you spend the cash on another.

Lead Acid Battery technology hasn't changed much in the last 50 years. A battery is a battery, and if I remember correctly there are only a few manufactures of the plates. It's all about how they stack the plates. The need for a smaller package has driven companies to stack the plates closer together to maximize the amperage in a small area. It isn't the best thing to do in a 4x4, if you wheel alot you can knock the crap on the bottom around and short out the plates easier. That's why the Gel batteries are a bit better for offroad use.

If you feel you must buy new battery I'd recommend the Gel type.

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Well.. The stock battery isn't really all that bad.. When I got my winch installed, I got a Yellow top.. I pulled my stock battery out and sat it on the floor of my garage.. There it sat for 2 years.. Then the battery in my Libby went.. I took the stock JK battery and hooked it up to my charger.. Charged it over night and installed it in my Libby the next day.. It has been 6 months and the battery is going strong..

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post #13 of 39 Old 10-30-2009, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
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So where did that extra 1.5 Volts come from? Did the battery magically wake up? No, the alternator is an electrical generator and is supplying the voltage throughout your vehicle and kicked everything up to 13.5 volts. The alternator.
If you take your jeep out for a drive using whatever Stock normal stuff like, the a/c, radio etc, then get home, park it and turn it off. Then a little while later, maybe a day or two, you get in and try to start it, and "click".
Now you check the battery and it reads 12v. Now you're sitting there thinking WTF?!!
You get out the cables and jump it..starts right up... = Bad Battery!

Moral of this story..The battery should have cranked with the battery reading 12v! In order for the battery to gain the additional 1.5v..the engine has to start! Otherwise..it would be "Magic".

RED, you yourself said.."If anything, the audio system will take away the current from charging your battery and make the charging process of your battery slower."

^This should't even be the case cuz the Alt, unless defective or too small (power wise), should compensate by throwing more power to the battery when needed.

Look, the whole Battery suggestion was based on what I said earlier, about the Jeep Batteries being know to crap out early. Most of which didn't even have any extra after market stuff putting a draw on them when the vehicle's off.
I know the ALT. provides power to everything while the vehicle is running and the Battery just cranks the vehicle, unless the vehicle isn't running. But if the Battery is crap, the ALT can try all day to recharge it, but it won't help.

All I'm sayin is people are putting extra stuff on their jeeps all of the time..Most of which won't be used often enough to really justify the cost. But replacing something like a battery, that's proven to be a POS on more than a few occasions, doesn't seem like a waste of $ in comparison. Especially if you're going to put MORE draw on that already crappy battery.

That being said: here's a 16 yo who's putting a stereo in his jeep...You Just Know He's gonna play it whem the ignition is off.
Now take that into consideration, and add a battery known to be unreliable and see what'cha end up with. I'll tell ya.. Posting a thread on the JKO with a title that reads..Jeep won't start!



Now, What you guy's say IS true, when it come to a reliable, proven battery. That is, one w/out a poor history.

If the alternator explanation is for me..I already know this. The alternator was mentioned on another thread posted by the OP.

If it's for other people..GOOD INFORMATION!

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post #14 of 39 Old 10-30-2009, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynkedad View Post



If you take your jeep out for a drive using whatever Stock normal stuff like, the a/c, radio etc, then get home, park it and turn it off. Then a little while later, maybe a day or two, you get in and try to start it, and "click".
Now you check the battery and it reads 12v. Now you're sitting there thinking WTF?!!
You get out the cables and jump it..starts right up... = Bad Battery!

Moral of this story..The battery should have cranked with the battery reading 12v! In order for the battery to gain the additional 1.5v..the engine has to start! Otherwise..it would be "Magic".

RED, you yourself said.."If anything, the audio system will take away the current from charging your battery and make the charging process of your battery slower."

^This should't even be the case cuz the Alt, unless defective or too small (power wise), should compensate by throwing more power to the battery when needed.

Look, the whole Battery suggestion was based on what I said earlier, about the Jeep Batteries being know to crap out early. Most of which didn't even have any extra after market stuff putting a draw on them when the vehicle's off.
I know the ALT. provides power to everything while the vehicle is running and the Battery just cranks the vehicle, unless the vehicle isn't running. But if the Battery is crap, the ALT can try all day to recharge it, but it won't help.

All I'm sayin is people are putting extra stuff on their jeeps all of the time..Most of which won't be used often enough to really justify the cost. But replacing something like a battery, that's proven to be a POS on more than a few occasions, doesn't seem like a waste of $ in comparison. Especially if you're going to put MORE draw on that already crappy battery.

That being said: here's a 16 yo who's putting a stereo in his jeep...You Just Know He's gonna play it whem the ignition is off.
Now take that into consideration, and add a battery known to be unreliable and see what'cha end up with. I'll tell ya.. Posting a thread on the JKO with a title that reads..Jeep won't start!



Now, What you guy's say IS true, when it come to a reliable, proven battery. That is, one w/out a poor history.

If the alternator explanation is for me..I already know this. The alternator was mentioned on another thread posted by the OP.

If it's for other people..GOOD INFORMATION!
So basically what you are saying is that if I take my 12v battery out of my makita drill it should start the jeep? Hell then it should have started the cummins as well, wtf?

If the OP wants to bring all of his stereo equipment to me I will install it and hook up my fluke calibrated volt meter to show the total current draw at full volume after it is done. I just looked at JL audios site and found a nice new 5 channel that will fit into the stock amp location, 500x1 and 4x100. that will run off of a stock electrical system all day long. And for those of you that think that you need more power than that you need to quit listening to the sales people, if you need more sound add more speakers, you can only get out so much per speaker and for each speaker that you add it is usually a 2-3 db gain. Besides run all the channels at 2 ohms and you get more power from the amp. You can always get an upgraded rectifier or an adjustable one for the alternator to get more out of it. Before I became a pro class installer I too thought you had to have the best, most, more and on and on and the more projects that I did the more I saw the waste in systems, I remember when I built 97.9 the boxx jamz astro van I did 8-18's in a diamond with them firing at each other, the sales people told them that they needed a power 1000 on each 18, so 8 amps running at 4 ohms, i could have got more power and spl (db) out of 4 of the amps running a 2ohm load which is how I re wired it for spl competitions. The problem is that you do not need as much as you think if you do it correctly. I would recommend 1 amp for the whole system for ease and space. Or if you are going to do multiple amps get the sub amp to be able to handle a 1ohm load and get dual voice coil speakers so that you can wire them to run 1 ohm and wirng all the power out of it.

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post #15 of 39 Old 10-30-2009, 11:04 AM
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I'm still looking for the posts that say the stock battery is a POS. Mines is over a year old with no problems. My wifes Mopar Battery in her car is they same type as the JK and we just changed it after 5 years.

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post #16 of 39 Old 10-30-2009, 12:50 PM
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I don't know if the stock battery is a POS or not, but my stock battery failed without warning right a two years old. Dealer replaced it under warranty.

I then upgraded to two Odyssey PC1500 batteries (one an Odyssey labeled and the other a Sears labeled) so I would not get stranded somewhere due to a failed battery. We do a lot of "trail rides" where we are many miles from civilization and push starting an automatic just isn't going to happen.

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post #17 of 39 Old 10-30-2009, 02:04 PM
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I agree with the members that focused on the alternator.

If you have dimming and charging issues when the vehicle is running then upgrade your alternator. If you just want to run your accessories while the vehicle is off then upgrade your battery. Better yet, if you really want to be safe while running accessories when the vehicle is off get a dual battery setup along with a more powerful alternator. This way you can drain the reserve battery without affecting the main battery and then have enough alternator juice to charge it once the vehicle is running.

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post #18 of 39 Old 10-30-2009, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob4607 View Post
So basically what you are saying is that if I take my 12v battery out of my makita drill it should start the jeep? Hell then it should have started the cummins as well, wtf?

Now you're just being a dumbass

Not quite sure where in my post, you think I suggested that.??

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post #19 of 39 Old 10-30-2009, 02:18 PM
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with little effort..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncojohn View Post
I'm still looking for the posts that say the stock battery is a POS.
I found two in this thread. Posts 28 & 29..mention battery at fault.

https://www.jkowners.com/forum/showth...p+start&page=2

If you search, you'll find more..NTM, I never said it was on This board alone, where battery issues were posted.
Here's a few more on a different forum..I wiped out the names etc..

Last night come out from dinner, and my jeep won't start....nothing no crank or display. notice a small glow in my headlights and a noise coming from the fuse box. relay K4 is chattering like crazy, pull the relay and reinstall. jumped the car and drove for a little bit and as soon as I slowed down shuts down again.
this happened 2 more times then towed, anyone experience this? only would start with a jump and idle fine.

HELP!!!!

UPDATE: yep it was a dead cell in battery, everything else checked out okay. thanks for all the input.
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Sounds like your battery died. At least one cell did, that or it needs a good charge.

_____________

06-27-2009,


---------------------------------------

Similar thing happened to me 6 months ago. It was driving ok but the starter was taking awhile to turn the engine on. Drove across town then when I went to go back there was nothing when I tried to turn it on. The fuse box was buzzin and the battery was boiling and popping. Headlights would flicker dimly as well. Ended up being an internal short or something in the battery, can't remember exactly what they said. Either way jeep replaced the battery free of charge and I've never had a problem since.

Can't help with the shut down, we tried to jump mine and it didn't work. It could very simply be your battery so I'd check that first. Goodluck man.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yep, Sounds exactly like a dead cell in the battery.

_______________

06-27-2009, 10:35 PM #5

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I had the same problem about two weeks ago, took it into jeep and they replaced the battery no problem since.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynkedad View Post
Now you're just being a dumbass

How is that? You stated the battery said 12 volts so it had to be enough to start it, what you didn't say was that you tested it with a big heave battery tester and it measured 12 volts with a load on it, then it should have started. A dead battery can read 12 volts all day long, shouldn't say dead, drained battery reads 12v but will not have enough amps stored to fire it up. 12v's means nothing when testing a battery for strength to start or operate something. hell my vibrating toung ring when i still wore all my piercings would have started it if that was the case, lol. Back at ya! lol

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post #21 of 39 Old 10-30-2009, 02:35 PM
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post #22 of 39 Old 10-30-2009, 02:51 PM
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Well, I was unaware I had to bring in the Amp factor in order to get a point accross. Most people look at the Volt side of a car battery when determining whether it's good or not.

I'll bet the fellas loved that vibrating tongue sh!t! just kidding..lol.

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post #23 of 39 Old 11-03-2009, 02:07 PM
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OP - Seeing that you're only 16, how about learning to drive and concentrate on the road and others without the distraction of a radio, gps, cd, dvd, and ear-bleeding speakers driven by amps.


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post #24 of 39 Old 11-03-2009, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
That's pretty narrow minded thinking advice. When I was 16, I was doing the same things. If you haven't noticed there's actually a lot of things that can be learned if you take the time to learn and understand them and a few of those things have been talked about in this discussion. It seems like a simple thing, adding a couple amps and subwoofers to get more "boom". But then you run into things like grounding point differential hums, Speaker whine caused by alternator ripple voltage, insufficient audio system current supply problems....etc...etc.

If you learn all these things young, when you have a lot of time to play around with things like this, it can help you out down the road if this is something that really interests you. I put my 1st booming system into a 1983 Ford Escort when I was 16. Today I'm an electrical engineer and designing OEM audio systems supplied to Lexus, BMW, Porshe, Ferrari, Mercedes, Chrysler, Toyota, and Harley Davidson. So yeah....good sounding audio systems have always interested me. Now I get paid to work on things that interest me and it makes going to work every day more enjoyable. I get paid to crank it up and make it go BOOM!!!.
It isn't narrow minded at all. I got my driver's license the day after my 16th birthday. Less than a year later I bought my first car - '73 350 Nova with my own money. There is a lot to learn about cars, electronics, etc., but it is also good for kids to learn to drive first. A 16yo kid is a danger behind the wheel - basically driving a 4000# to 7000# weapon. I see too many idiots on the road talking on the cell phone, texting, weaving, and generally not paying attention - a lot of them young kids. The last thing a 16yo kid needs is a stereo so loud it distracts them from driving.

I love pulling my Harley up next to idiots with rolling boom boxes with them "getting their gangsta lean on" while talking on the phone at stop lights. I make sure I'm just as obnoxious as they're ridiculous stereos.

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Last edited by BigMike; 11-03-2009 at 04:29 PM.
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post #25 of 39 Old 11-03-2009, 04:33 PM
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BigMike, I have the same attitude. It's best to learn about the basics before you start jacking with it. Learning how to dirve is the most important basic. I would love to see my kid learn how to drive the old Chevy C-10 3 on the tree I did. It takes gaming to a whole new level. No time to even think about the radio. I work with engineers that couldn't manage themselves around a snap-on ratcheting screwdriver (And I'm serious, I'm studying for my EE now). If they had taken the time to learn how to change the tire they might not be as hopeless on the floor at work.

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If he was aiming down the sights correctly and had plenty of practice rounds under his belt, there would only be one side of this story.
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