Stereo Speakers - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 22 Old 08-31-2009, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Upstate NY
Age: 45
Posts: 13
Feedback: 0 reviews
Stereo Speakers

Is it ok to use upgraded speakers with the factory stereo? I heard the stereo is 2ohm and my new speakers are 4ohm. What would happen?
MKR160 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 Old 08-31-2009, 01:55 PM
Rock God
 
RDM Offroad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Glendora, Ca
Posts: 1,193
Feedback: 3 reviews

You can interchange the different components and wire 4ohm speakers to be detected as 2ohm and vice versa by wiring in series or parallel. I'm sure there are articles on this out there showing the exact wiring for each setup.

The 1st place to start is by figuring out what you are working with.

JKOWNERS Member Discount Available at:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Click the link to automatically apply the current offer!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Follow us on:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
RDM Offroad is offline  
post #3 of 22 Old 08-31-2009, 02:56 PM
Super Moderator
 
StubEXrube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 15,341
Garage
Feedback: 5 reviews

Just for sh!ts and grins, I changed out the OEM factory sub to a single boxed JL 10" . I didn't change anything else besides just splicing the wires for the new sub. It is thumpin' like a mad dog now. The rear window looks like it's about to bail when I kick up the decibels with some Pantera or Rage Against the Machine (*pointless music plug ). I need to do it the right way and add my Alpine head unit and JL 250 wt amp, but for now this system sounds a whole lot better.

Poly Performance - Dynatrac - Currie - Goodyear - Poison Spyder - Warn - PSC - AEV - Reid Racing - Off-Road Evolution - Flowmaster - Delta - Riddler - Micky Thompson - Daystar - Skid Row - Uniden - Rebel Offroad - Firestik - Warrior Products - Viair - HiLift - ARB - Kicker - Infinity
StubEXrube is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 22 Old 09-01-2009, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Upstate NY
Age: 45
Posts: 13
Feedback: 0 reviews

Thanks for the replys.
MKR160 is offline  
post #5 of 22 Old 09-01-2009, 04:59 PM
JKO Addict!
 
scottrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: St Augustine
Age: 48
Posts: 3,022
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

I replaced all my stockers with T3 audio. Best mod eva!

The factory non-infinity stuff is pure T ****. Plastic framed paper cones with ittybitty magnets

Anything decent you put in there will make your old factory speakers sound like a cassette recorder in a coffee can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StubEXrube View Post
zjr- I'm not that horny, but I have been known to salivate over your meat.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
scottrock is offline  
post #6 of 22 Old 09-18-2009, 08:58 AM
Rock God
 
MaloCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 48
Posts: 578
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKR160 View Post
Is it ok to use upgraded speakers with the factory stereo? I heard the stereo is 2ohm and my new speakers are 4ohm. What would happen?
Yes it is okay. All that will happen by hooking up 4 ohm speakers to a 2 ohm signal is you will effectively reduce the supplied power by half. For example, if your system is pushing 50 watts at 2 ohms with 2 ohm speakers it will only output 25 watts if 4 ohm speakers are used.

Those that the beast is looking for...
Listen in awe and you will hear him...
BARK AT THE MOON!
MaloCS is offline  
post #7 of 22 Old 09-18-2009, 05:29 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4
Feedback: 0 reviews

If you have the infinity sound system then the speakers are 2ohm. If not then they are 4ohm. If it is the infinity system is still ok it just won't be as loud. Infinity makes aftermarket speakers in 2ohm if you are just wanting to change them out. You can still use them on any radio without any problems because of the distance between the speakers and the radio, impedence rise, and other factors.
12volt is offline  
post #8 of 22 Old 09-18-2009, 06:11 PM
JKO Addict!
 
mikeyfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: apollo beach, fl
Age: 38
Posts: 2,872
Garage
Feedback: 3 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12volt View Post
If you have the infinity sound system then the speakers are 2ohm. If not then they are 4ohm. If it is the infinity system is still ok it just won't be as loud. Infinity makes aftermarket speakers in 2ohm if you are just wanting to change them out. You can still use them on any radio without any problems because of the distance between the speakers and the radio, impedence rise, and other factors.
i have the stock non infinity system, if i slap some aftermarket speakers in it without an aftermarket power source, they will sound louder than an infinity equipped system with aftermarket speakers?
mikeyfl is offline  
post #9 of 22 Old 09-18-2009, 07:31 PM
Rock God
 
MaloCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 48
Posts: 578
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyfl View Post
i have the stock non infinity system, if i slap some aftermarket speakers in it without an aftermarket power source, they will sound louder than an infinity equipped system with aftermarket speakers?
They will sound different due to the different construction material but they won't sound louder.

The only way to get louder is to push more air which is only achievable by going with a bigger speaker, adding more speakers or increasing the supplied power. The human ear perceives an increase in loudness every 3db with a perception of twice as loud being every 10db. In order for a speaker to achieve a 3db increase in loudness you must double the supplied power. For example, if you're running 50 watts and you want to get louder you need to upgrade to 100 watts. Buying a 60 watt amp to replace a 50 watt amp won't net an increase in perceived loudness. Again, if you're running 150 watts and want to get louder you'll need 300 watts. If you're running 300 watts you'll need 600 watts, etc.

To summarize, by just swapping out your speakers you won't increase loudness. What you will do is change the way the music sounds based upon speaker material. If the material is a metal or plastic based composite the music will sound brighter then if the material was made out of a natural based material like paper.

The tonal variations that different types of speaker materials create can be both positive and negative. If you like warm sounding music then you'll want a natural material like a paper cone and a silk tweeter. If you like bright music then a hard material should be used. Personally, I like my music to sound warm so I tend to lean towards paper and silk.

Good luck!

Those that the beast is looking for...
Listen in awe and you will hear him...
BARK AT THE MOON!
MaloCS is offline  
post #10 of 22 Old 09-18-2009, 07:39 PM
JKO Addict!
 
Mr.RonGilbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Houston
Age: 48
Posts: 9,140
Garage
Feedback: 6 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaloCS View Post
They will sound different due to the different construction material but they won't sound louder.

The only way to get louder is to push more air which is only achievable by going with a bigger speaker, adding more speakers or increasing the supplied power. The human ear perceives an increase in loudness every 3db with a perception of twice as loud being every 10db. In order for a speaker to achieve a 3db increase in loudness you must double the supplied power. For example, if you're running 50 watts and you want to get louder you need to upgrade to 100 watts. Buying a 60 watt amp to replace a 50 watt amp won't net an increase in perceived loudness. Again, if you're running 150 watts and want to get louder you'll need 300 watts. If you're running 300 watts you'll need 600 watts, etc.

To summarize, by just swapping out your speakers you won't increase loudness. What you will do is change the way the music sounds based upon speaker material. If the material is a metal or plastic based composite the music will sound brighter then if the material was made out of a natural based material like paper.

The tonal variations that different types of speaker materials create can be both positive and negative. If you like warm sounding music then you'll want a natural material like a paper cone and a silk tweeter. If you like bright music then a hard material should be used. Personally, I like my music to sound warm so I tend to lean towards paper and silk.

Good luck!


Nice.... I learned something.
Mr.RonGilbert is offline  
post #11 of 22 Old 09-18-2009, 08:37 PM
JKO Addict!
 
mikeyfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: apollo beach, fl
Age: 38
Posts: 2,872
Garage
Feedback: 3 reviews

so what is the deal with 2ohm vs 4ohm?
mikeyfl is offline  
post #12 of 22 Old 09-18-2009, 09:13 PM
Granite Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Virginia Beach
Age: 42
Posts: 120
Feedback: 0 reviews

If the speaker is more efficient (sensitivity measured in db at 1w/m) you will get louder sound from the same amount of power. the two ohm speakers in a two ohm set up will play louder then a 4 ohm speaker in a 2 ohm set up for reasons stated above, but if you find a 2 ohm speaker with a higher sensitivity and put them in a 2ohm system they will play louder. same for any matched system. Now the tricky part is getting any speaker in the sound bar to sound good. Some people i have read have put stuffing in there to reduce rattling and improve sound.

The difference is in the design of the coil and the result is a difference in resistance which will give you a 4 ohm rating or a 2 ohm rating. Many factors go into this and is prett much above the scope of this topic.

Rubi Lift
MBRB Rock Rails
Smittybuilt XRC Front Bumper
Tinted Windows
Quadratec Floor Mats

Last edited by motors4fun; 09-18-2009 at 09:19 PM.
motors4fun is offline  
post #13 of 22 Old 09-18-2009, 11:11 PM
Rock God
 
MaloCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 48
Posts: 578
Feedback: 0 reviews

To add to the discussion, OHMS is the scientific term to describe resistance. The less resistance in the circuit the higher amount of power can be pushed through that circuit. Think of it in terms of a hose and water; a 3" diameter hose will allow more water to pass through it then a 1" diameter hose. In the previous example the hose represents resistance (OHMS) and the water represents power (WATTS).

In car audio we typically have power issues as well as space issues. Therefore, factory designers tend to lean towards a 2 ohm configuration because it can generate more wattage from the same amperage in about half the physical size. For example, take a look at the Jeep's Infinity, 8-channel, 368 watt amp. What you will find is an amp that is smaller then a typical hard back book while a comparable 4 ohm amp is about the size of a typical box of cereal or larger.

Another thing to consider with resistance is that the lower the value the higher the noise factor. Typically speaking, an 8 ohm amp is quieter then a 4 ohm amp which is quieter then a 2 ohm amp. Even though less resistance allows for an increase in power it comes at a price which is a noisier audio signal. This is why home audio is typically designed around an 8 ohm configuration. Regardless, this extra noise is mostly inaudible while driving in a car because the vehicle's ambient sounds either over power it or cancel it out. This is another reason why car audio designers don't worry too much about a 2 ohm system.

So, what's the real world difference between 2 ohm and 4 ohm load in relation to stereos? Nothing really. If the system is configured properly then either resistance will net favorable real world results. It's when people start mixing and matching different devices with different specs that things get confusing. If you take 4 ohm speakers and hook them up to a 2 ohm amp then you open the door to other factors that can hamper the results you're looking for. The best thing to do is keep within the specs of the factory system if you're just upgrading components which will net the best results. For example, the factory system is pushing power at 2 ohms. If you want to upgrade your speakers then make sure you get 2 ohm speakers or if you want to upgrade your amp make sure it can operate at a 2 ohm load.

One last thing to consider when upgrading any stereo is the type of enclosures you're putting those fancy, top of the line speakers into. I tend to think of speaker enclosures as the red headed step child in stereo design because most people don't give the enclosures the necessary attention they deserve. In the Jeep the enclosures are made out of abs plastic that resonate and buzz when enough power is pushed to the speaker. This resonance colors the sound output of the speaker and robs the system of power resulting in the user getting upset because their $1,000 stereo sounds like crap.

If you invest money into your stereo make sure you address any weaknesses that the factory enclosures may have. In the case of the Jeep I've found that several layers of Dynamat are needed on the enclosures so they don't resonate. In my opinion, deadening the enclosures in the Jeep is the best investment to your stereo you can make.


Those that the beast is looking for...
Listen in awe and you will hear him...
BARK AT THE MOON!
MaloCS is offline  
post #14 of 22 Old 09-19-2009, 01:30 AM
Comfortably Numb
 
RubiCajun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 12,289
Garage
Feedback: 1 reviews

I've read in the some other threads about some guys that have trashed the OEM amp on the 7 speaker system and replaced it with the same amp from a Nitro and there was much sound improvement. Supposedly chrysler degraded the OEM amp somehow. Truth?

08 Rubi Unlimited named Freebird

Quote:
Originally Posted by StubEXrube View Post
Cat killing would almost certainly decline if we were allowed to hunt liberals.
Asylum media group llc all rights reserved 2015
RubiCajun is offline  
post #15 of 22 Old 09-19-2009, 07:40 AM
Rock God
 
MaloCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 48
Posts: 578
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by RubiCajun View Post
I've read in the some other threads about some guys that have trashed the OEM amp on the 7 speaker system and replaced it with the same amp from a Nitro and there was much sound improvement. Supposedly chrysler degraded the OEM amp somehow. Truth?
I really don't know if this is true or not. Based upon several accounts it's hard to determine if what people are reporting is fact or perception. After all, how can the same amp, with the same physical specifications generate more power then it's exact twin? It can't.

It is true that Jeep decreased the gain and added a high pass filter to the sound bar speakers in order to correct resonance generated by a poorly designed and manufactured speaker enclosure. The increase in loudness that people may be hearing could be a Nitro amp that doesn't have these limitations coded into it. Now this is all fine and dandy until you take your Jeep into the dealer and they flash the computer which would automatically set the amp to the lower gains and result in lower sound output from the sound bar speakers. I guess if one never has the Jeep flashed then the factory Nitro settings would remain intact but I don't think one should count on that being the case.

Honestly, I would invest a $150 in Dynamat and get to deadening the enclosures. After that process is complete I would listen to the stereo for a few days or weeks and determine if an upgrade is truly needed. You would be surprised at how bad the stock enclosures resonate and how bad that resonance makes the music sound. I've found that most people are mistaking enclosure resonance for poor speaker output.

I know that deadening the enclosures is not as sexy as getting new speakers or new amplifiers but it is just as, if not, more important to the efficiency of your stereo. I can't stress enough how bad the stock enclosures are and how much difference a few layers of Dynamat makes. When I applied the Dynamat to my front pods I only did the passenger side. I then reinstalled the pod, played my favorite bass heavy tune and adjusted the balance between the treated and untreated pod. The difference between the two pods was night and day. The treated pod played louder, it played lower and played clean whereas the untreated pod buzzed and hummed and just flat out sounded like crap.

Those that the beast is looking for...
Listen in awe and you will hear him...
BARK AT THE MOON!
MaloCS is offline  
post #16 of 22 Old 09-19-2009, 11:42 AM
Comfortably Numb
 
RubiCajun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 12,289
Garage
Feedback: 1 reviews

thanks Malo. where did you get the dynamat?

08 Rubi Unlimited named Freebird

Quote:
Originally Posted by StubEXrube View Post
Cat killing would almost certainly decline if we were allowed to hunt liberals.
Asylum media group llc all rights reserved 2015
RubiCajun is offline  
post #17 of 22 Old 09-19-2009, 12:37 PM
Rock God
 
MaloCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 48
Posts: 578
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by RubiCajun View Post
thanks Malo. where did you get the dynamat?
I purchased the Dynamat from Car Toys. If you're looking for a better deal and don't mind waiting for shipping then go with SecondSkin Audio"s Damplifier Pro which is the same thing without the premium price.

In order for you to test and hear the difference I would advise only treating on front pod and then adjust the balance so you can hear the difference between the treated and untreated pods. Deadening your enclosures may solve your issues but you may still want to upgrade the speakers. Don't worry the time, money and effort you just spent on the deadening will not be wasted, it will only make those fancy speakers sound better. Again, when upgrading the speakers just install one side in the front and adjust the balance between the factory speaker and the after market speaker to hear the difference. Who knows, maybe you'll like the sound from the factory units much better. I know I did.

FYI - I used two complete layers of deadening material on the enclosures. I would recommend at least two layers but if you go with more it won't hurt. When applying the material just cut it into manageable pieces and overlap each new piece with the old. The front pods were treated on the outside and the sound bar and sub enclosure were treated on the inside.

Good luck!

Those that the beast is looking for...
Listen in awe and you will hear him...
BARK AT THE MOON!
MaloCS is offline  
post #18 of 22 Old 09-20-2009, 02:12 AM
Granite Guru
 
dodge8604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ft. Knox, Ky/Brooksville, Ky
Age: 33
Posts: 438
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaloCS View Post
FYI - I used two complete layers of deadening material on the enclosures. I would recommend at least two layers but if you go with more it won't hurt. When applying the material just cut it into manageable pieces and overlap each new piece with the old. The front pods were treated on the outside and the sound bar and sub enclosure were treated on the inside.

Good luck!
Did you do the entire inside of the sound bar? That thing truly does suck!

For the front do you think a layer inside, and a layer outside out be sufficient? Did you just use the adhesive on the material or did you get some caulk or somethin?? I'm lookin heavily into this and a bunch of other system upgrades...want to get the best out of it that I can Thanks!

EDIT: Sorry for the hijack

08 JKU X - Flame Red w/ a few Doo Dads
dodge8604 is offline  
post #19 of 22 Old 09-20-2009, 12:23 PM
Rock God
 
MaloCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 48
Posts: 578
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodge8604 View Post
Did you do the entire inside of the sound bar? That thing truly does suck!

For the front do you think a layer inside, and a layer outside out be sufficient? Did you just use the adhesive on the material or did you get some caulk or somethin?? I'm lookin heavily into this and a bunch of other system upgrades...want to get the best out of it that I can Thanks!

EDIT: Sorry for the hijack
I just applied 2 layers of material to the outside of the front pods. Since the pods are hidden inside the dash I wasn't concerned about the look of the finished product.

The sound bar is a little trickier since the enclosure is visible. I guess if one doesn't mind the deadening material being visible they could apply it to the exterior but this wouldn't be an option for me. I would definitely take my time and apply the material to the interior of the sound bar so it couldn't be seen. You may find that after the Dynamat has been applied the dome light housing may still resonate a bit. This can be eliminated by stuffing poly fill around the dome light.

Those that the beast is looking for...
Listen in awe and you will hear him...
BARK AT THE MOON!
MaloCS is offline  
post #20 of 22 Old 09-20-2009, 12:58 PM
JKO Addict!
 
d'sjk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Age: 37
Posts: 2,132
Garage
Feedback: 2 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by RubiCajun View Post
I've read in the some other threads about some guys that have trashed the OEM amp on the 7 speaker system and replaced it with the same amp from a Nitro and there was much sound improvement. Supposedly chrysler degraded the OEM amp somehow. Truth?
Though the Nitro amp is the same power but is not turned down to prevent rattling the sound bar dome light (the gain is turned up)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

d'sjk is offline  
post #21 of 22 Old 09-21-2009, 01:36 PM
Haf
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Biloxi, MS
Age: 34
Posts: 47
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaloCS View Post
IIt is true that Jeep decreased the gain and added a high pass filter to the sound bar speakers in order to correct resonance generated by a poorly designed and manufactured speaker enclosure. The increase in loudness that people may be hearing could be a Nitro amp that doesn't have these limitations coded into it. Now this is all fine and dandy until you take your Jeep into the dealer and they flash the computer which would automatically set the amp to the lower gains and result in lower sound output from the sound bar speakers. I guess if one never has the Jeep flashed then the factory Nitro settings would remain intact but I don't think one should count on that being the case.
I thought the decrease was hard wired from the head unit, thus flashing the computer wouldnt reconfigure the amp, and the only way to get rid of the decrease is an aftermarket head unit. I could be wrong thats just what I've been told by numerous people. just my $.02
Haf is offline  
post #22 of 22 Old 09-21-2009, 01:47 PM
Rock God
 
MaloCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 48
Posts: 578
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haf View Post
I thought the decrease was hard wired from the head unit, thus flashing the computer wouldnt reconfigure the amp, and the only way to get rid of the decrease is an aftermarket head unit. I could be wrong thats just what I've been told by numerous people. just my $.02
I can't speak for the non Infinity system but in the upgraded stereo the amplifier controls the sound level of the speakers. The Infinity amp has the ability to control cross over levels and channel gains so flashing the amp with new values will change the output of the amp.

From what I've read the guys that experienced sound bar problems took the Jeep into the dealer who flashed the amp which solved the resonance issues but resulted in lower output. I've also read about guys that purchased the Nitro amp and for non related issues had their CPU flashed and lo and behold, the sound bar speaker levels reverted back to the loudness level prior to installing the Nitro amp.

I won't swear on a bible but by connecting the dots it sure does point to the fact that the upgraded Infinity amp controls cross over points and gain levels.

Those that the beast is looking for...
Listen in awe and you will hear him...
BARK AT THE MOON!
MaloCS is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome