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post #1 of 62 Old 11-07-2012, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Can your employer just take your vacation away??

So I am a physical therapist for a large rehab company. Been there over 3 years, which is a while in this area...turnover is crazy. Anyway, never thought I'd like the job because it is nursing home setting. Ended up loving it! However, each time Medicare makes cuts and insurance changes so do our jobs. I've taken a pay cut, they keep raising productivity, I've had long and short term disability taken away(which was a major marketing point when they were pursuing me), and now they are limiting how many days(2) vacation we can take a month!!! Wtf is up with that??

I guess here's my question. Is that even legal? We accrue vacation every pay period, so we've earned it. And I have 9 days right now, will earn another 32-33 hours before end of year, and can't carry over but 40hrs. Can they cut my vacation in almost midfuckin November when I've saved all year just to spend the holidays with my family???


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post #2 of 62 Old 11-07-2012, 01:39 PM
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Did they cut the amount you accrue each year, too? Or did they just limit how much you can take in each month?

One of the local manufactures here in Maine gives 2 weeks paid vacation per year. The plant shuts down the first 2 weeks in July. That's it for everyone's vacation. Period. Rain or shine. No exceptions.

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post #3 of 62 Old 11-07-2012, 01:41 PM
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So I am a physical therapist for a large rehab company. Been there over 3 years, which is a while in this area...turnover is crazy. Anyway, never thought I'd like the job because it is nursing home setting. Ended up loving it! However, each time Medicare makes cuts and insurance changes so do our jobs. I've taken a pay cut, they keep raising productivity, I've had long and short term disability taken away(which was a major marketing point when they were pursuing me), and now they are limiting how many days(2) vacation we can take a month!!! Wtf is up with that??

I guess here's my question. Is that even legal? We accrue vacation every pay period, so we've earned it. And I have 9 days right now, will earn another 32-33 hours before end of year, and can't carry over but 40hrs. Can they cut my vacation in almost midfuckin November when I've saved all year just to spend the holidays with my family???
Are you a unionized position? Even if you're not, I'd be spending some time looking at your labor laws for your state. Because this doesn't sound right. Especially the part where you're limited to only using 2 vacation days per month.

While I can understand them limiting how many days you can carry at a time (we're limited to 30 days + 2 weeks of banked OT - however cannot not use more than 4 weeks at a time), but limiting you to only being able to use 2 vacation days per month... wtf... how are you actually suppose to take a real vacation?! Not even an extended vacation (say 3+ weeks), but even just a week off to visit family or some crap like that.

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post #4 of 62 Old 11-07-2012, 02:00 PM
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yeah look into labor laws first, also find out is that from this date forward on accrued days. Since you accrued 9 days previous to this being in effect does that mean that those days don't count towards the new rule?

If you only get 2 days a month I would be looking at another job if you could.

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post #5 of 62 Old 11-07-2012, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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Did they cut the amount you accrue each year, too? Or did they just limit how much you can take in each month?

One of the local manufactures here in Maine gives 2 weeks paid vacation per year. The plant shuts down the first 2 weeks in July. That's it for everyone's vacation. Period. Rain or shine. No exceptions.
no you still accrue 6.67 per pay period, 24 pay periods per year. so right at 20 days vacation, but the nursing home does not close so you use these for all major holidays also. not complaining about the amount, just the fact that they decided i could take 2 days/month in NOVEMBER when i have like 12 days i could take. and they'll only roll over 5.

that sucks real bad for that factory for sure!


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post #6 of 62 Old 11-07-2012, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
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Are you a unionized position? Even if you're not, I'd be spending some time looking at your labor laws for your state. Because this doesn't sound right. Especially the part where you're limited to only using 2 vacation days per month.

While I can understand them limiting how many days you can carry at a time (we're limited to 30 days + 2 weeks of banked OT - however cannot not use more than 4 weeks at a time), but limiting you to only being able to use 2 vacation days per month... wtf... how are you actually suppose to take a real vacation?! Not even an extended vacation (say 3+ weeks), but even just a week off to visit family or some crap like that.
i have contacted a local HR director at a bank and she didn't think it was illegal, just really fuckin shady. i have also looked into filing a grievance, but i need to go through their handbook to see if they 'broke the contract". i just have a feeling they're way ahead of me on that one, but hey we have caught em doing stuff they weren't supposed to be doing before so it isn't too far of a stretch.

we could only take 5 days in a row to begin with, which is fine with me, we can't just leave our patients hanging with PRN help for too long. but now, they say only 8 days off per month for the 4 fulltime employees at my particular facility. if no one else needs off i could take 8 i suppose. they are trying to keep their $$numbers$$ high during the holidays because of all the medicare cuts lately. and it's sad because senior citizens deserve better, but that's a whole different story.


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post #7 of 62 Old 11-07-2012, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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i am looking into labor laws and will be into the night...i'm a slow reader

my company is out of louisiansa and texas, but i'm in arkansas so there ay be some differences i can find.

and USMC, i have been looking into another job, against my wishes. i enjoy geriatrics, and the only stuff readily available around here is pediatrics. some of the residents at the nursing home are as close to me as some of my family at this point


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post #8 of 62 Old 11-07-2012, 02:14 PM
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It sounds as if they are sinking fast. When a company gets in trouble, benefits are the first things to start getting cut.
Now they are limiting your vacation which means they can no longer afford to pay for unproductive days.
Next will be your paycheck bouncing.
Now the good news, you are in a high demand field and should have no trouble finding another one.
The above might explain the high turnover.
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post #9 of 62 Old 11-07-2012, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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It sounds as if they are sinking fast. When a company gets in trouble, benefits are the first things to start getting cut.
Now they are limiting your vacation which means they can no longer afford to pay for unproductive days.
Next will be your paycheck bouncing.
Now the good news, you are in a high demand field and should have no trouble finding another one.
The above might explain the high turnover.
you may be right. i know you are in medical admin right? i thought i read that somewhere anyway lol. they have some new stupid rule every october until they see if the medicare therapy caps get upheld come january. they also have the 'too many chiefs, not enough indians' scenario like a sumbitch.

they do have a reputation of being one of the higher paying companies around here, and they are trying to reverse that ASAP


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post #10 of 62 Old 11-07-2012, 02:49 PM
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It's probably legal but shitty, I'd be asking to get paid out on what you can't now carry over. I'd also start looking for a new job ASAP if I were you.

My last employer fawked me and a bunch of others over. They bounced a paycheck and went bankrupt the next week. I also lost any vacation time I had and worked two weeks for zippo. Actually it was even worse, because I had a direct deposit the money went in my account but was reversed a couple of days later by their bank. Apparently that's legal since the company didn't have the funds to pay the bank. So on top of no pay I ended up getting a crap ton of charges from my bank because I went overdrawn.

I should have seen the writing on the wall but kept believing the owner's spin

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post #11 of 62 Old 11-08-2012, 05:56 AM Thread Starter
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Hmm good point Alec, if they aren't getting paid with all the Medicare denials we've been getting back, they may just be going broke. I will have to dig a little deeper into this. They make money off me because I know what my charges are worth, but that may not pay for the little power trippin boss they send around who sees ZERO patients but probably gets paid very well.

After talking to you guys and some of my teachers, and a few others I trust, I think it's time to begin looking a little harder for another position. I can work PRN for enough places now that I could fill up a week in no time, but I like stability and benefits. So I'm trying to find a job that's pretty much full time. May be harder than I think...


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post #12 of 62 Old 11-08-2012, 06:55 AM
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I'm sorry to hear that. My company was "acquired" this spring. I had saved my pto for some longer vacation in the spring. I was told I could not take any time off before the new company took over, that I couldn't carry the time off over and that I would not be paid for it. I lost 7 of the 10 PTO days I get per year.

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post #13 of 62 Old 11-08-2012, 07:30 AM
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I'm going to offer a dissenting opinion....disclaimer, no disrespect intended.

Once upon a time, the American work week was not m-f 40hrs per week. There was no vacation, or sick time. You had a job and you worked your ass of, or you got fired and replaced.
Given the current political climate, and the massive expansion of government mandated health care legislation, I wouldn't want to be a private provider. I feel more sorry for your company, than you. They are likely losing massive amounts of money and struggling to keep employees working, while providing needed services to the elderly. Would I be pissed about losing benefits? Sure, but I'd also shed a small tear for the struggle the company must be facing, and asking what I could do to help keep them afloat.
If your company goes tits up, the socialists put another check mark in the destroy small business and let the govt be caretaker of humanity column.
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you may be right. i know you are in medical admin right? i thought i read that somewhere anyway lol. they have some new stupid rule every october until they see if the medicare therapy caps get upheld come january. they also have the 'too many chiefs, not enough indians' scenario like a sumbitch. they do have a reputation of being one of the higher paying companies around here, and they are trying to reverse that ASAP
This makes me think that they could lose a few of the board before taking it to the wookers... Befor i start to feel bad for the people running the show i would have to see they are feeling the pinch too.

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post #15 of 62 Old 11-08-2012, 07:51 AM Thread Starter
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I'm going to offer a dissenting opinion....disclaimer, no disrespect intended.

Once upon a time, the American work week was not m-f 40hrs per week. There was no vacation, or sick time. You had a job and you worked your ass of, or you got fired and replaced.
Given the current political climate, and the massive expansion of government mandated health care legislation, I wouldn't want to be a private provider. I feel more sorry for your company, than you. They are likely losing massive amounts of money and struggling to keep employees working, while providing needed services to the elderly. Would I be pissed about losing benefits? Sure, but I'd also shed a small tear for the struggle the company must be facing, and asking what I could do to help keep them afloat.
If your company goes tits up, the socialists put another check mark in the destroy small business and let the govt be caretaker of humanity column.
Good luck
I understand that totally. I'm very lucky to be in the field I'm in, but then again it took 8 years and 60k to do it. And I was very loyal to the company before they started doing the things they did...pay cuts on Friday afternoon, totally blindsided...took away short term and long term disability about 3 months after hire, after marketing it to me hardcore...putting hours in for vacation for salaried employees that didn't get 40 hours(illegal)...having lavish rehab director meetings in Vegas and flying people all around instead of having teleconferences...generally wanting to run charges up on patients who can't handle it...and now limiting EARNED PTO. Make no mistake, the company 'got too big for their britches' and could not care less about any of these elderly people. That's my job, they just don't appreciate it.


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post #16 of 62 Old 11-08-2012, 07:54 AM Thread Starter
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This makes me think that they could lose a few of the board before taking it to the wookers... Befor i start to feel bad for the people running the show i would have to see they are feeling the pinch too.
Exactly what I think when a speech therapist(regional director) runs around telling you what you did wrong, but the whole time brings in ZERO income.


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post #17 of 62 Old 11-08-2012, 08:01 AM
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I understand that totally. I'm very lucky to be in the field I'm in, but then again it took 8 years and 60k to do it. And I was very loyal to the company before they started doing the things they did...pay cuts on Friday afternoon, totally blindsided...took away short term and long term disability about 3 months after hire, after marketing it to me hardcore...putting hours in for vacation for salaried employees that didn't get 40 hours(illegal)...having lavish rehab director meetings in Vegas and flying people all around instead of having teleconferences...generally wanting to run charges up on patients who can't handle it...and now limiting EARNED PTO. Make no mistake, the company 'got too big for their britches' and could not care less about any of these elderly people. That's my job, they just don't appreciate it.
Okay, I hear you... Who thinks they're entitled to blow money when things are getting difficult, just because of a cool job title? I'm sorry you don't work for a company that understands the guys and gals on the front lines are the ones bringing in the money...

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post #18 of 62 Old 11-08-2012, 08:26 AM
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Exactly what I think when a speech therapist(regional director) runs around telling you what you did wrong, but the whole time brings in ZERO income.
Has nobody told you that your field is one of the highest in demand? You are at the wrong company I'm afraid. It's not illegal what they have done, just very crappy. Chances are you signed off on it on day one allowing them to make changes. It's all part of it.

I'm not sure if you wanted to stay in LTC facilities, but I'm willing to bet there are at least 10 clinics that are hiring around your area. Not including large healthcare facilities.

PRN you can bank on and may even be a good route depending on your area.

Start looking. Messing with people's benefits, especially this late in the year proves you are a number there and they give 2 shits about you.




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post #19 of 62 Old 11-08-2012, 09:06 AM
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but obama care is going to help us so we don't need to worry.


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post #20 of 62 Old 11-08-2012, 03:22 PM
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That sucks. Sounds like your employer is in panic mode; attempting to do more with less in order to stay afloat. They should just do the right thing and explain to the employees that they are in financial trouble and have to make some emergency changes, rather than play games and come across like a bunch of assholes.

My wife is an RN and things have been getting really shitty at her hospital too for the last month. There is still a shortage of nurses, but rather than hire more, hospitals are making them to do more with less. Our local university is pumping out RNs like crazy, but they can not find jobs. So its not that there is a shortage of nurses (like there was 10 years ago), its that health care professionals are not being hired.

My wife is in a union, but hospitals are expecting things to get so bad that they basically do not care what the union demands anymore and may consider a strike an opportunity to "thin the herd" a little more, and bring in new labor that will work for less.

They are having a huge meeting in two weeks to announce some "major changes". The rumor is that benefits will be significantly cut.

If given a choice, I would run away from the health care industry right now.
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post #21 of 62 Old 11-09-2012, 05:53 AM Thread Starter
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Has nobody told you that your field is one of the highest in demand? You are at the wrong company I'm afraid. It's not illegal what they have done, just very crappy. Chances are you signed off on it on day one allowing them to make changes. It's all part of it.

I'm not sure if you wanted to stay in LTC facilities, but I'm willing to bet there are at least 10 clinics that are hiring around your area. Not including large healthcare facilities.

PRN you can bank on and may even be a good route depending on your area.

Start looking. Messing with people's benefits, especially this late in the year proves you are a number there and they give 2 shits about you.




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yeah their "handbook" is ever-evolving! the field is nice, for now, but i do live in an area that graduates many more just like me each year. still plenty of jobs though, just that they are dwindling in LTC...and that's what i enjoy

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That sucks. Sounds like your employer is in panic mode; attempting to do more with less in order to stay afloat. They should just do the right thing and explain to the employees that they are in financial trouble and have to make some emergency changes, rather than play games and come across like a bunch of assholes.

My wife is an RN and things have been getting really shitty at her hospital too for the last month. There is still a shortage of nurses, but rather than hire more, hospitals are making them to do more with less. Our local university is pumping out RNs like crazy, but they can not find jobs. So its not that there is a shortage of nurses (like there was 10 years ago), its that health care professionals are not being hired.

My wife is in a union, but hospitals are expecting things to get so bad that they basically do not care what the union demands anymore and may consider a strike an opportunity to "thin the herd" a little more, and bring in new labor that will work for less.

They are having a huge meeting in two weeks to announce some "major changes". The rumor is that benefits will be significantly cut.

If given a choice, I would run away from the health care industry right now.
sometimes i think about a plan B, not something you really want to do after spending almost a decade preparing for a career. plus, i enjoy it and people will always be getting hurt and getting older/out of shape. disease processes give me some small feeling of job security. but one big change in insurance, which has happened before(1998), and poof...the jobs damn near disappear. i wish your wife the best, benefits are a huge deal. without them, everyone should just work PRN and pick up their own insurance. who knows, maybe that's what they want. the hospital i used to be connected to makes me nauseous.


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post #22 of 62 Old 11-09-2012, 07:21 AM
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Good luck should you pursue another company. If you have questions feel free to PM me. My past life was in Therapy staffing/marketing. Not anymore but may still be able to give advice if needed.

Good luck either way!


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post #23 of 62 Old 11-09-2012, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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Good luck should you pursue another company. If you have questions feel free to PM me. My past life was in Therapy staffing/marketing. Not anymore but may still be able to give advice if needed.

Good luck either way!


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Thank you very much. Will definitely keep that in mind.


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post #24 of 62 Old 11-11-2012, 07:50 PM
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I know what you are saying. I haven't had a pay raise or bonus in 4 years and typically work 70 hours a week but I am salaried so no OT for me. I guess I should feel lucky for having a job but when my pay has decreased due to increased health coverage and child support then I go to the store and see that milk has gone up in price 500% it's kinda hard to feel sympathy for those on entitlements unless they are truly in need.
This past week I find out that they are cutting salaries by 15% and raising insurance premiums by 10%. So those that can retire are retiring before the pay cuts start in Jamuary.
Anyway, I guess I'm going to do what most of my colleagues are doing and we are bugging out, hell may even live on our 401K for awhile and start a consulting company.

Good luck in your decision.
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post #25 of 62 Old 11-11-2012, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
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I know what you are saying. I haven't had a pay raise or bonus in 4 years and typically work 70 hours a week but I am salaried so no OT for me. I guess I should feel lucky for having a job but when my pay has decreased due to increased health coverage and child support then I go to the store and see that milk has gone up in price 500% it's kinda hard to feel sympathy for those on entitlements unless they are truly in need.
This past week I find out that they are cutting salaries by 15% and raising insurance premiums by 10%. So those that can retire are retiring before the pay cuts start in Jamuary.
Anyway, I guess I'm going to do what most of my colleagues are doing and we are bugging out, hell may even live on our 401K for awhile and start a consulting company.

Good luck in your decision.
thank you. and good luck with yours as well. i am noticing a reoccurring theme here, and by reading other threads here and elsewhere, companies/people are simply cutting back due to the Obamacare stuff. it really is crazy that these decisions are affecting so many working individuals lives. i am beginning to actually feel lucky it's not worse for me...yet. maybe i'm just lucky to have a job


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