Poison Spyder - very unhappy with quality - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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Poison Spyder - very unhappy with quality

I'm putting this post up so that others may be warned.

I bought Poison Spyder Brawler Rockers for my 2011 JK Unlimited. Upon receipt, they looked like they came from a dirt pit shop in India. I spent hours and hours cleaning them up, straightening damage from shipping due to poor packaging, then spent hours trying to align everything and grind them to fit the contour of the jeep.

This is no exaggeration. The pieces arrived so filthy with oil and fabrication muck it was ridiculous. I had to grind about half of the internal gussets in order for the step to even get close to fitting the rocker armor. Finally I got them to fit as best I was willing to, primed, painted and installed them with as much pre-load as you can with this design. Then headed to Las Cruces, New Mexico with a group of friends to run some trails down there.

To say the least, I was really frustrated to find that I spent top dollar on a product that didn't hold up much better than cheap Shittybuilt or for that matter, the stock Rubicon Rails. Both the Shittybuilts and stock Rubicon Rails were on different jeeps on the same trip along with a few other brands. We all ran the same trails and all basically took the same lines and were all winching up the same areas we couldn't make it. I am the only one to have left with rocker damage due to rails failing to protect the jeep.

Contacted Poison Spyder, they were very surprised to hear of such damage, they ask for a video or pics which I sent right away and then I never heard back from them. I just called yesterday to see what's up and this was their response;

************************************************** **********
Copy of post;

So I spoke with Poison Spyder again today to see what they came up with regarding my Brawler Rockers that failed to protect the jeep from pretty significant damage to the body.

They said they responded to me via e-mail (no record of it on the email address they said they sent it to...of course). I have no idea what the e-mail contained but they say they will resend it (won't hold my breath on that one either).

What was explained to me is that they sell 150 Brawler Rockers every month (that's over 120k in sales on one product alone- food for though) and that they run them on their rigs at KOH and that in all the time they have been selling them and using them, they have never, ever seen damage done to them like the damage I sustained. Even running KOH they have never seen that kind of damage. They also told me that they have never, ever gotten any kind of complaint regarding the Brawler Rocker. They said the only way I could have gotten that kind of damage was in a major crash. They also said that from the video I sent (sent a video showing the damage to the rocker and the subsequent damage to the body) they could tell the step was bowed about 1/2" or so and that it would take like 100k plus pounds of force to bend the rail at the break the way I did. I again explained that it didn't bend at the break, it bent just under the break. The guy was watching the video as we spoke but I guess he couldn't really tell from his perspective, but to him it looked bent way up. (trust me, it's not bent dude)

They also said that they have never, ever gotten a complaint from anyone regarding the integrity of the Brawler Rocker. I explained again that there wasn't a tremendous crash, that we had no drops take place of more than 8" and I also explained that the rail wasn't bent 1/2". In fact it wasn't bent at all along the flat step plane (I placed a straight edge on it while on the phone to verify that fact).

Well regardless, I was told that I should file a claim with my insurance company because I was involved in a crash! I was also told that the way I wheel is extreme and that with the JK's I should have 39's or bigger and should crawl and not bump when climbing, etc...

Now, I have watched several of the Poison Spyder vids around and see that they slide and bump when necessary and even have some pretty good thuds when impacting those rails while bumping up obstacles. I suppose it can be said that regarding Brawler Rockers, California physics are much different than Arizona or New Mexico's (I hope they don't cause cancer too...shit).

In a real world situation where most of us stop at 4" lifts, 35" tires and beefed up stock axles, would it not be prudent to say that those types of vehicles are the norm of which these Brawler Rockers are installed? I would have to say yes. I would also have to say that I can't possibly be the only person in the U.S. or elsewhere that has had an issue like this. I can also say that in New Mexico where the damage happened, I was not the only person to hit their rocker armor. I was however, the only person to hit their rocker armor and get this kind of damage. From the cheap stock Rubicon Rails to the most expensive Poison Spyder Rails, the Poison Spyder Rails were the only ones to fail miserably

On the lighter side, I was told that I would be given a little discount if I purchased another set. Hmmm, let me think about that for a minute.

My main point is that if I wanted body damage, I would have bought Shittybuilt. I bought what was supposed to be the best and that sure didn't prove to be the case. Also, do any of you guys that were on the New Mexico trip remember me falling off a cliff and landing on my rails in a crash? I don't think there was anything that should have crunched it that bad do you?

************************************************** ****

Sorry for such a long post but I needed to get this out there. I won't be buying anything from Poison Spyder again. I won't have anything to do with their products and I personally feel that they have really gotten too big for their britches. Shit happens and if only one person out of thousands and thousands has a problem, just make it right without even asking questions. I own a business and I never hesitate to make it right regardless of the circumstances. If I told my customers to call the insurance company I would be out digging ditches tomorrow.

Thanks for letting me rant and please, buyer beware.
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post #2 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 12:05 PM
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post #3 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 12:12 PM
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Between this and the cage thread, I'm just gonna steer in a whole diff direction.


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post #4 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 12:23 PM
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post #5 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 12:26 PM
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I would be interested in seeing pictures as well. I had a fit issue when installing mine, but they fit the rocker armor fine. However, once placed on the armor tabs, the bottom mounting flanges were about a 1/2" down from the body mount points. I simply shimmed that space, and they have performed well.

I beat on them pretty well when I was in Moab for three months, and only experienced scratches. I am curious to see where yours failed.

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post #6 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 12:30 PM
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I had a first hand look at the OP's Jeep after he got back from the Las Cruces trip. The damage that occured to his rig is just unacceptable for what it was put through. The body of his Jeep is actually tweaked so that the door doesn't shut right anymore. My Smittybilt.. although cheap and flexible has done a better job at protecting my Jeep than his Poison Spyder Brawlers did.

I'm glad I held off on buying sliders as I will for sure not be going with the Brawler Rockers or any PSC products.

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post #7 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 12:41 PM
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Strange. Mine were pretty dirty, like you said, but they've taken some damn hard hits and been fine. For like a glove on install.

Pics would be good.

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post #8 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 12:55 PM
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Did you call Poison Spyder before you did all the work on them and installed them? It's unclear or maybe I missed it.

We sell their products and have had no complaints but that doesn't mean that man made products either slip through quality control or fail.

I am just curious if they would have done something prior to the damage you got? Maybe they are hesitant due to the timing of involvement?

Pics would be great as I feel they would justify your rant and give good proof for people to make an educated decision on these products. Hell, I would like to know as we are a dealer and like to keep up with things like this.

Post the pics of you can!


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post #10 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 01:30 PM
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One question for a lot of different people that have been posting problems with products.

Why when a product shows up at your house, you unbox it, find out its a piece of shit for whatever reason, then proceed to modify it to fit your Jeep?

Just in the two recent examples we are talking about near $1000 products that people are tweaking to make work right. That shit just doesn't fly for me. I'd send it the fuck back until they provide me with something that exhibits a slight bit of quality control.

If you bought a new car would you start wrenching on it when the wheel falls of? No, you would take it back to the dealer and have them deal with it. I see no reason why these purchased components should be any different.

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post #11 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 01:45 PM
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not saying other rockers haven't bent. but i've seen one of their rails bend up into the body before...

i honestly think a lot of the problem is just the sheer weight of these jk's

31 jeeps in... still have issues
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post #12 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschaffer66 View Post
One question for a lot of different people that have been posting problems with products.

Why when a product shows up at your house, you unbox it, find out its a piece of shit for whatever reason, then proceed to modify it to fit your Jeep?

Just in the two recent examples we are talking about near $1000 products that people are tweaking to make work right. That shit just doesn't fly for me. I'd send it the fuck back until they provide me with something that exhibits a slight bit of quality control.

If you bought a new car would you start wrenching on it when the wheel falls of? No, you would take it back to the dealer and have them deal with it. I see no reason why these purchased components should be any different.
Why is quality control such a big problem that so many products are needing to be modified just to fit correctly? That's the question I have.

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post #13 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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I'll have Meg help me get the vid I sent to PS on here. I'm also looking for the Las Cruces vid that it may have happened on too. We'll get it on here also.
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post #14 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 02:05 PM
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Would really like to see pics of the damage!

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post #15 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschaffer66 View Post
One question for a lot of different people that have been posting problems with products.

Why when a product shows up at your house, you unbox it, find out its a piece of shit for whatever reason, then proceed to modify it to fit your Jeep?

Just in the two recent examples we are talking about near $1000 products that people are tweaking to make work right. That shit just doesn't fly for me. I'd send it the fuck back until they provide me with something that exhibits a slight bit of quality control.

If you bought a new car would you start wrenching on it when the wheel falls of? No, you would take it back to the dealer and have them deal with it. I see no reason why these purchased components should be any different.
That's the point I was making and hoping that's why Poison Spyder isn't taking action... Not that it's a good thing.


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post #16 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschaffer66 View Post
One question for a lot of different people that have been posting problems with products.

Why when a product shows up at your house, you unbox it, find out its a piece of shit for whatever reason, then proceed to modify it to fit your Jeep?

Just in the two recent examples we are talking about near $1000 products that people are tweaking to make work right. That shit just doesn't fly for me. I'd send it the fuck back until they provide me with something that exhibits a slight bit of quality control.

If you bought a new car would you start wrenching on it when the wheel falls of? No, you would take it back to the dealer and have them deal with it. I see no reason why these purchased components should be any different.
Sometimes trips get planned and you kind of get stuck fixing something because you need it.

Some people get so excited to get their shit that they don't care and make it fit because they can't wait to have it.

Sometimes it's easier to fix something than fight with the manufacturer/dealer.

Lord, give me patience. I'm afraid that if you give me strength I'll need bail money too.
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post #17 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschaffer66 View Post
One question for a lot of different people that have been posting problems with products.

Why when a product shows up at your house, you unbox it, find out its a piece of shit for whatever reason, then proceed to modify it to fit your Jeep?

Just in the two recent examples we are talking about near $1000 products that people are tweaking to make work right. That shit just doesn't fly for me. I'd send it the fuck back until they provide me with something that exhibits a slight bit of quality control.

If you bought a new car would you start wrenching on it when the wheel falls of? No, you would take it back to the dealer and have them deal with it. I see no reason why these purchased components should be any different.
Good point. Often, as is the case, we get something at the last minute and have to make a decision as to whether or not to accept something that may be borderline. I don't remember but I recall we only had a few days before our trip by the time the sliders arrived.

Upon seeing what arrived I would venture to say that even if another set could have been had overnight, I'm not sure if things would have been any different.

Example; Your clothes and other items are all arranged on your bed for a trip to Europe. The new suitcase you ordered has just arrived. It's the wrong color and it's dirty as hell. Your plane leaves in two hours and all the stores are closed. Your only options are use the suitcase you have or take your shit in garbage bags or a cardboard box.

I cleaned up the suitcase and figured the color would grow on me. Unfortunately I didn't realize the fuckin zipper was gonna come undone and drop my shit all over the countryside...
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post #18 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SEVENSLAT4X4 View Post
Did you call Poison Spyder before you did all the work on them and installed them? It's unclear or maybe I missed it.

We sell their products and have had no complaints but that doesn't mean that man made products either slip through quality control or fail.

I am just curious if they would have done something prior to the damage you got? Maybe they are hesitant due to the timing of involvement?

Pics would be great as I feel they would justify your rant and give good proof for people to make an educated decision on these products. Hell, I would like to know as we are a dealer and like to keep up with things like this.

Post the pics of you can!

Working on getting the vid up. Will also take a few more pics to include once Meg gets home tonight.

To answer your question, no I didn't call them before we started doing all the work on them. We had a time crunch and felt the need to get them installed. We had only the stock Rubicon Rails on the jeep and were worried that if we didn't get the Brawlers installed, we might get damage.

I also didn't feel that they would care much regarding the cleanliness of the parts. However if I called them regarding the fittment issues then I assume they would have shown some concern and perhaps sent another set?

We only had like 4-days to get things fit, finished and installed along with all the other things we were doing to get ready.

Basically I gave them the benefit of the doubt, cleaned up their mess and made the product fit. It wasn't until after the damage that I was really, really upset and let them know about all of the issues including the fact that things came in the way they did.
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post #19 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 02:46 PM
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I have to say that if I were running a company that had a good reputation and you called me up and complained that after you modified my product it didn't work right you would be shit out of luck. If it didn't fit right then send it back. You can complain all you want but in the end your modifications could easily be the culprit.

I don't know that what you did is what caused the damage but from a business standpoint I would only be able to stand behind my product if you hadn't modified it.

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post #20 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomadr View Post
I would be interested in seeing pictures as well. I had a fit issue when installing mine, but they fit the rocker armor fine. However, once placed on the armor tabs, the bottom mounting flanges were about a 1/2" down from the body mount points. I simply shimmed that space, and they have performed well.

I beat on them pretty well when I was in Moab for three months, and only experienced scratches. I am curious to see where yours failed.
Were your body mounts all sagged and worn out for it to be 1/2" lower?
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post #21 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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I have to say that if I were running a company that had a good reputation and you called me up and complained that after you modified my product it didn't work right you would be shit out of luck. If it didn't fit right then send it back. You can complain all you want but in the end your modifications could easily be the culprit.

I don't know that what you did is what caused the damage but from a business standpoint I would only be able to stand behind my product if you hadn't modified it.
That's a very valid point, but I will say that the grinding I did to make the product fit in no way compromised the integrity of the Brawlers.

My grinding to make them fit, first of all should not have had to be done but giving PS the benefit of the doubt and assuming that each jeep may have a slightly different contour, enough so that it might require some slight mods would not be out of the question. Again, part of the reason I didn't make it into a huge deal in the beginning. But I do understand your viewpoint.
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post #22 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by angrysam View Post
Sometimes trips get planned and you kind of get stuck fixing something because you need it.

Some people get so excited to get their shit that they don't care and make it fit because they can't wait to have it.

Sometimes it's easier to fix something than fight with the manufacturer/dealer.
Amen brotha!
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post #23 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 03:09 PM
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post #24 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2k2wranglerx View Post
not saying other rockers haven't bent. but i've seen one of their rails bend up into the body before...

i honestly think a lot of the problem is just the sheer weight of these jk's
I think under the right circumstances anything is possible. There are few things that are indestructible.

Yes, weight is something to consider. There is also a lot of space between the wheels, that's for sure. These things are a huge part of the reason I went with the PSC product.
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post #25 of 95 Old 07-03-2012, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TJDukit View Post
I have to say that if I were running a company that had a good reputation and you called me up and complained that after you modified my product it didn't work right you would be shit out of luck. If it didn't fit right then send it back. You can complain all you want but in the end your modifications could easily be the culprit.

I don't know that what you did is what caused the damage but from a business standpoint I would only be able to stand behind my product if you hadn't modified it.
Agreed.

Also, what kind of damage from shipping?
My crossmember was shipped with a little bubble wrap on both ends, that's all.

Mainly to protect everything around it in the UPS truck. LOL.
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