My front driveshaft nightmare story.. - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 40 Old 06-06-2012, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
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My front driveshaft nightmare story..

So, heres my nightmare.....

Had 5.13 gears installed about a month/2 months back and while having em installed, I had a tatton double carden installed, because my stocker started to throw grease so I figured it would be a good time to upgrade.

Picked up my jeep from having the gears done, noticed the vibs I(which I already knew about cause the dude who did the gears noticed during the test drive); figured no biggie, just have to bring my pinion up a bit to bring it in line. That was a no go, brought my pinion up to 6 degrees and still got vibes. Figured, well, this shaft must be off balance, maybe it got damaged during the shipping process, ok, so, I sent er back, and got a new one sent out. Just received the new one in last Thursday, installed it, and guess what.....IT VIBRATES!. Just as bad as before, and at the same speed, 45 MPH plus.....(and would like to add just for clarification, the vibs go away when the shaft is removed).

I had my caster checked beforehand, just to assure myself that it wasnt to high for a double carden, and my caster was at 3 degrees. On the low side of factory setting. Mind you, I am only at 2.5 inches of lift.

So, at this point, I am thinking that, either Tatton shafts suck the big one, I am extremely unlucky and got 2 unbalanced shafts (both highly unlikely, first off, the shaft is extremely high quality I will point out, and, there is no way I got 2 unbalanced shafts)....

So, this basically leaves me at WTF?!?! I can go with another company, Woods, JE Reel. etc... but I have the feeling that I will still have the same results. The only theory I have is that due to the 5.13s gears, the shaft is spinning to fast to not vibrate, but then again, almost everyone who has done gears, ie 5.13, 538, etc. has a CV front shaft and no issues.

Suggestions, input?

Rant off

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post #2 of 40 Old 06-06-2012, 12:46 PM
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I had the same problem, my tatton shaft was sent with a greasable centering ball attached to a pin that mates to the non greasable centering ball. This causes a slight amount of play in the shaft and will cause vibrations. Both Tatton and RCO essentially said I was full of shit and negated to help me on this. The claim, was that since the double cardan comes from spicer it cant be wrong. Well guess what, quality control aint allways great. I confirmed this information from SPICER(not making this shit up). Correct pieces were put in, and voila, It didnt vibrate. Imagine that. Heres the deal, instead of purchasing a driveshaft a world away, have someone local make one. Also, Tatton does use quality DOM tubing, you hardly need to balance DOM. Its not a balance issue. You may not have the same problem I do, but you may want to rule it out.

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post #3 of 40 Old 06-06-2012, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorJeeper View Post
I had the same problem, my tatton shaft was sent with a greasable centering ball attached to a pin that mates to the non greasable centering ball. This causes a slight amount of play in the shaft and will cause vibrations. Both Tatton and RCO essentially said I was full of shit and negated to help me on this. The claim, was that since the double cardan comes from spicer it cant be wrong. Well guess what, quality control aint allways great. I confirmed this information from SPICER(not making this shit up). Correct pieces were put in, and voila, It didnt vibrate. Imagine that. Heres the deal, instead of purchasing a driveshaft a world away, have someone local make one. Also, Tatton does use quality DOM tubing, you hardly need to balance DOM. Its not a balance issue. You may not have the same problem I do, but you may want to rule it out.
Wow if that happened as you said it did its a shame that Tatton or RCO would not at least take it back for inspection do prove or disprove your claim.

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post #4 of 40 Old 06-06-2012, 12:58 PM
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Lynch have ever had a professional install this driveshaft or attempt to dial in the pinion/caster? I would also find it very hard to believe two of the shafts were not true, however I would at least have someone with the knowledge other than myself try the setup before making such claims. Lynch it seems to be you may not be able to get this setup, if I was in Marcus's shoes at this point...I'd be tired of you! Keep complaining about something, people try to help but there is only so much the internet can do. You NEED to have someone that knows what's going on look at your rig.

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post #5 of 40 Old 06-06-2012, 01:02 PM
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Yup. Have a professional look at that shaft. Thats what it took to fix mine. Live and learn.

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post #6 of 40 Old 06-06-2012, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorJeeper View Post
Yup. Have a professional look at that shaft.
That's just good advice in general.
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post #7 of 40 Old 06-06-2012, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodysgotacuda View Post
Lynch have ever had a professional install this driveshaft or attempt to dial in the pinion/caster? I would also find it very hard to believe two of the shafts were not true, however I would at least have someone with the knowledge other than myself try the setup before making such claims. Lynch it seems to be you may not be able to get this setup, if I was in Marcus's shoes at this point...I'd be tired of you! Keep complaining about something, people try to help but there is only so much the internet can do. You NEED to have someone that knows what's going on look at your rig.
Ok. First off, the yokes are on already, so there is nothing that I could POSSIBLY fuck up. There are 4 bolts at the tcase end, another 4 at the diff. What more is their? There is nothing to do "wrong" And the yokes were installed, by the guy who did my gears, the same guy that does gears for RK's builds and many other people in my area.

And yeah, I wound find it hard to believe that I received 2 shafts that were off, but something is wrong here.

And im sorry, but if Marcus, or you, or anyone, is tired of me, well; that makes me sad but.... I have not done nothing no one else would have done in this situation. If one pays 400 dollars for something, that could lead to thousands of dollars worth of damage if not set right, and no matter what you do, at the recommendation of many others, including the techs at Tom Woods, you cant alleviate the vibrations, your gonna complain about the product. Marcus has done everything he can do, and I appreciate his help emmensely, but at this point, it has nothing to do with him, there is nothing he can do to fix the situation and I dont expect him to. He is just the vendor, I understand that.

Here is a pic of my pinion angle, measured with 2 different angle finders, at 2 different locations. One of those locations, was the circular machined area next to the diff, which according to Tom Woods website and the tech I spoke with on the phone, is the best/easiest place to measure. The other, was measured on the flat surfaced of the yoke itself. As you can see, the shaft/pinion are perfectly in line with each other; give or take one degree. In this pic, the pinion angle is at 6 degrees.

[IMG][/IMG]

Im over the situation, believe me. Im sending it back and either going with another shaft or putting my stocker back on. But, at this point, it is essentially a mystery I am trying to solve.

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post #8 of 40 Old 06-06-2012, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorJeeper View Post
I had the same problem, my tatton shaft was sent with a greasable centering ball attached to a pin that mates to the non greasable centering ball. This causes a slight amount of play in the shaft and will cause vibrations. Both Tatton and RCO essentially said I was full of shit and negated to help me on this. The claim, was that since the double cardan comes from spicer it cant be wrong. Well guess what, quality control aint allways great. I confirmed this information from SPICER(not making this shit up). Correct pieces were put in, and voila, It didnt vibrate. Imagine that. Heres the deal, instead of purchasing a driveshaft a world away, have someone local make one. Also, Tatton does use quality DOM tubing, you hardly need to balance DOM. Its not a balance issue. You may not have the same problem I do, but you may want to rule it out.
And I believe we have been through this already. But this is the centering ball on the "second" shaft I now have.

[IMG][/IMG]

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post #9 of 40 Old 06-06-2012, 01:43 PM
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Ryan and I have been in touch and he's getting a full refund from Tatton and we are covering the shipping back to Utah from NY for him. IMO he's been taken care of and I'm fairly certain that he feels the same. If not he has not eluded to that at all and we are in touch with each other daily.

Tatton sent a new drive shaft out to him without any questions asked and has talked to him on the phone a number of times. We have both done everything that we can to try and help him out.

The shafts that were shipped to Ryan were balanced on two separate machines be cause in the interim Tatton's old balancer went out and he got a new one in the shop.

I can't say for sure what the issue is, but maybe GatorJeeper is on to something with the cardans.

THAT being said - I NEVER, EVER said that GatorJeeper was full of shit or dismissed what HE told me as BS. I thought an installer was feeding him garbage to take the heat off of themselves.

See PM:

"
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorJeeper
In tatton shaft and 513 thread you can see in the pic that the wrong centering ball is used. Just like both of mine. That guy will never get the vibes out of that shaft. I wasn't bullshitting you.
I didn't think YOU were, I thought the shop telling you that was bullshitting you.

They come pre-assembled from Spicer...that's what's throwing me for a loop. Anyone that's building drive shafts with Neapco or Spicer joints buys them pre-assembled.

I hate more than anything that you had trouble with those damn things. I wish I could reverse it all and make it go away, but I can't now. Are they still vibrating?"


What I do know is that the drive shafts were installed by a local driveline shop and the installer said they were too long so he took it upon himself to cut them down. When they vibrated the installer started pointing fingers and saying it was this (the cardan) or that (manufacturing) and contacted Tatton directly. It looked to me, from the outside looking in, that the installer screwed something up and was trying to pin it back on me or Tatton. Which is exactly what I told Gator.

I'm not Tatton and I gave him their phone number multiple times to try and rectify the situation directly instead of passing information through over and over again as the middle man. I'm not sure if he ever called Tatton or not and I was trying to get out of the middle so that he was dealing with two professional driveline shops so that nothing would be construed.

Anyhow, at that point the shafts had been altered, Tatton wasn't given the opportunity to make anything right, and I had no leg to stand on with the customer, Tatton, or the drive line shop that altered the shafts in the first place.

He received axle shafts from me a few weeks before this happened and they were supposed to come with retainer plates. They didn't and he bought some from the local parts house and told me about it after the fact. I asked how much and refunded him the money he had to spend to make it right without him even asking for it. I guess I could have done the same thing again and refunded him the $790 that he paid me for the Tatton shafts and taken a huge loss and never ended up in Dirty Laundry about it but I didn't and here we are.

I really don't know what else to say. I will do whatever I need to do to make you happy GatorJeeper - but you gotta understand that I am the middle man with Tatton and I think you understand why things ended up like they did. Let me know what you want me to do. You know I'm a stand up guy and I'm not out to take anyone's money and run. I'm sorry you took my "my hands are tied" response as thinking you were full of it. I didn't think that at all.

Marcus
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PS - Ryan I'm not tired of you dude. This is a frustrating situation that I wish I could figure out.

Have you driven the Jeep over to RK with the shaft in it and let one of them drive it and tell you what they think? Might be an option.

Marcus


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post #10 of 40 Old 06-06-2012, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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Angry

Thanks Marcus.

The main thing that bothers me about this situation, is that I hear all the time of people running 3.5, 4.5, even 5.5 inch lifts, with double carden shafts and factory caster specs of 4-5 to 5 degrees, w/o vibrations whatsover. I dont understand how I could be at only 2.5 inches of lift, and get vibs at less than HALF of the factory caster specs. UGH!!!

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post #11 of 40 Old 06-06-2012, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlynch2 View Post
And I believe we have been through this already. But this is the centering ball on the "second" shaft I now have.

[IMG][/IMG]
That marking on that ujoint cap looks interesting. Possibly fubared the u joint on install?
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post #12 of 40 Old 06-06-2012, 05:24 PM
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Marcus, the guy that discovered the wrong parts was not the guy who cut my driveshaft. The guy that cut it(Forman's), I refused to deal with anymore. The next guy( B and B) I used builds driveshafts for competition alcohol cars and other competition vehicles. He never touched my Jeep, just the driveshaft. I gave him the driveshaft and asked him to inspect it. He called Curtis to ask him why he is using the wrong parts and Curtis told him he purchases them allready assembled. Conversation pretty much ended there. I had B and B powertrain replace the parts and low and behold the vibration went away. He didnt charge me labor and sold the parts at cost because he knew I got hosed. I thanked you for fixing the rear axle shaft issue, but honestly that has nothing to do with this. Curtis sent me two driveshafts that were not assembled correctly so I feel he is at fault. I realize that you are the vendor and did not make the shaft, but because you sold the product your tied to it regardless. I wish you were not associated with this because you seem like a nice guy, but it is what it is.
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post #13 of 40 Old 06-06-2012, 05:54 PM
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I'm interested to see more about this. I have slight vibs from my rear tatton driveshaft, but it isn't anything too bad as of yet.

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Originally Posted by WheelingWv View Post
I'm interested to see more about this. I have slight vibs from my rear tatton driveshaft, but it isn't anything too bad as of yet.
Pull it now before something bad happens. Do you have a double carden front as well? Or stock?

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post #15 of 40 Old 06-06-2012, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorJeeper View Post
Marcus, the guy that discovered the wrong parts was not the guy who cut my driveshaft. The guy that cut it(Forman's), I refused to deal with anymore. The next guy( B and B) I used builds driveshafts for competition alcohol cars and other competition vehicles. He never touched my Jeep, just the driveshaft. I gave him the driveshaft and asked him to inspect it. He called Curtis to ask him why he is using the wrong parts and Curtis told him he purchases them allready assembled. Conversation pretty much ended there. I had B and B powertrain replace the parts and low and behold the vibration went away. He didnt charge me labor and sold the parts at cost because he knew I got hosed. I thanked you for fixing the rear axle shaft issue, but honestly that has nothing to do with this. Curtis sent me two driveshafts that were not assembled correctly so I feel he is at fault. I realize that you are the vendor and did not make the shaft, but because you sold the product your tied to it regardless. I wish you were not associated with this because you seem like a nice guy, but it is what it is.
I didn't know that it was two different shops until now.

I was only saying that about the shafts to reiterate that I had taken care of you before so there was no reason to say that I didn't do what I could for you on the shafts. I think you knew as soon as the drive shafts were altered there wouldn't be much recourse. I tried - but there wasn't much I could do given we weren't offered the chance to fix it before things went array.

I'm not shunning myself of responsibility at all. But I don't think it's fair to say that I said you were full of shit and negated to help you. That isn't at all what happened from my point of view.

If anyone has issues with Tatton drive shafts that were or were not purchased from me his direct phone number is 801-685-0056. He answers the phone himself nine out of ten times. I've seen him go so far beyond the call of duty to make his product right that he's offered to rent cars for people for the inconvenience and down time. He is NOT in the business of selling a shoddy product and running the other direction.

Marcus


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post #16 of 40 Old 06-06-2012, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlynch2 View Post
Pull it now before something bad happens. Do you have a double carden front as well? Or stock?

My front shaft is pulled currently, but it's a coast 1310 and I havent ever had an issue with it previously.

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post #17 of 40 Old 06-08-2012, 08:52 AM Thread Starter
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Brought the shaft to a local driveline shop, I wanted to rule out all possible causes before going another route and the shaft is off balance by 9 thousanths at the spline end and another 23 thousanths at the CV end. I was told that acceptable levels range from 0-5.

I dont have enough knowledge to interpret what these numbers mean; but I was told it refers to the amout of run off in the shaft as it spins on the balancer.

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post #18 of 40 Old 06-14-2012, 04:59 PM
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I am unfortunately in the same boat with my Tatton. I have a 4.5 inch lift and have adjusted control arms 28 different ways from Sunday and still ended up with vibes.
I am gonna get mine balanced to see if it does any good.
If I knew that I could get it to stop vibrating with pinion angle I would just cut my axle tubes, rotate dif and rewelded them.
But I had that pinion angle almost straight in line with shaft and it still didn't help. Actually seemed worse not to mention you couldn't fart without ending up in oncoming traffic!!

I ended up just pulling it till I go offroading. Not ideal but works for now.

You smell that?
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post #19 of 40 Old 06-18-2012, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverCityOffroad View Post
If anyone has issues with Tatton drive shafts that were or were not purchased from me his direct phone number is 801-685-0056. He answers the phone himself nine out of ten times. I've seen him go so far beyond the call of duty to make his product right that he's offered to rent cars for people for the inconvenience and down time. He is NOT in the business of selling a shoddy product and running the other direction.

Marcus
x2
They sent me a replacement front in the middle of the country after my CV started srewing itself (CV's fault, not Tattons)

Dude I wish I could help you with the vibes, like when you PMed me I am running a CV on 5.5" and no vibes. Did you check the U-joint phasing like I advised?
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post #20 of 40 Old 06-18-2012, 09:17 AM
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After only a month of use the little rubber grease boot tore off the inside of the double cardan and started making all kind of noise. I called curtis tatton and he told me you really don't need that boot anyways. Never asked if he could help me in any way. That told me all I needed to know about tatton shafts right there. I ended up fixing it myself like usual. I didn't think I could complain since I was on 5.5 springs and the angle was just about maxed out. But I keep seeing complaints on here about his shafts. I'm not gonna lie. I will not ever buy a tatton shaft again. I have had vibes from day one also. The rear tatton shaft is fine. I even cut it down 1.5"s and it still has no vibes. Seems the fronts are the hit and miss ones. The only reason I'm keep this shaft is i'm going with lockouts on the d60 and it wont spin unless in 4wd.
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post #21 of 40 Old 07-02-2012, 01:47 PM
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what rubber boot?

doesn't tatton use the same spicer centering ball as the rest of the world?

are these 1310 or 1350 shafts?

31 jeeps in... still have issues
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post #22 of 40 Old 07-02-2012, 02:12 PM
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wtf to those degrees?

what kind of shit is that?









mine is up about 16 degrees... no vibs here


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post #23 of 40 Old 07-06-2012, 05:45 AM Thread Starter
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What?

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post #24 of 40 Old 07-06-2012, 05:46 AM Thread Starter
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what rubber boot?

doesn't tatton use the same spicer centering ball as the rest of the world?

are these 1310 or 1350 shafts?
There is a rubber boot surrounding the centering ball in the cv

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post #25 of 40 Old 07-06-2012, 05:48 AM Thread Starter
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wtf to those degrees?

what kind of shit is that?









mine is up about 16 degrees... no vibs here

What brand shaft is that? And who are you talking to when you say what kida shit is that? .....nd your pinion angle number by itself makes no difference, its the pinion angle in relation to the angle of the driveshaft itself.

2008 Black 2Dr 6spd D30/44
RK 2.5 X-Factor | Synergy tie rod | 35x12.5 MTRK's | BFH front | Genright rear | Yukon 5.13's | ARB front locker | Warn M8000 w/MasterPull synthetic | Rigid 10'' E-series
rdlynch2 is offline  
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