Teraflex 6" LCG LA KIT...! - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 42 Old 02-18-2011, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
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Angry Teraflex 6" LCG LA KIT...!

So after fully investigating the issues Ive been having, I think its appropriate to post this here.

A little background details for everyone:
I'm currently running the Teraflex 6" LCG LA KIT. I have no problems with the flex both front and rear, and the on road handling has been very mannered. Ive been wheeling this kit w/ 40s for 2 1/2 years now.

Exactly 1 1/2 years into wheeling with this kit, I found a huge FLAW in the design where the upper control arms mount. NO RESPONSIBILTY was taken by TERAFLEX for a flaw aside from saying directions were unclear for the welds, yet a week later Teraflex R&D come out with gussets to help resolve this issue. And here are the gusstes:
http://www.teraflex.biz/gusset-kit-f...nd-right.html#
Teraflex had this to say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeraFlex View Post
BINGO. TeraFlex will be working on revised instructions showing how/where these brackets need to be welded.
and here is the original link to the first issue:
https://www.jkowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27614

After fixing the first issue TERAFLEX did nothing to help me fix any future issues with the other side.

Well low and behold, the other side did break; however, with this break it was easier to understand the DESIGN FLAW. The welds to the frame were 100% fine, but the TERAFLEX BRACKET was not. It is clear as day that the bracket is the WEAK POINT which is why it broke first while the welds to the frame were fine. Those gussets they came out with tie the back end of the bracket to the frame, which might strengthen it a little bit. Nevertheless, since thats not the weak point, people with the gussets could easily still be at risk to breaking the bracket. Since the load of the upper control arm has horizontal distribution the bracket eventually gives and BREAKS at the FOLD. This is then FOLLOWED by the welds breaking at the frame after driving on it for a while or even driving it home from the trail.

Hopefully the pictures can help illustrate what Im saying incase you guys arent with me.



Again, with the bracket completely broken at the FOLD the weight nows resides on the remaining peice which is welded to the JK frame. With the JK frame being so weak, its only a matter of 10-100 miles before the frame gives thus making it appear like the welds were originally flawed. Luckily for me, I was able to see this all happen, step by step, allowing mself and others to see what did break first. To help validate this, I also had a couple other opinions from some shops, techs, and forum members in person, who all explained the same thing happening. (if they want to jump on I'll let them do it themselves) I might be able to take a short video of the load distribution at the bracket to again help eveyone understand this.

And to rule out the specs on my jeep(IE the big tires, weight etc..), please refer to my original fix. People were breaking these brackets with 35s and less than a 1000 miles on them.

I honestly like TERAFLEX as a company, Ive ran 4 of there kits since I was 16 years old, and up until now thought they were solid. Joe has been quite helpful throughout the last 3 years with me, but seems to have dissapeared from JKO altogether.

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Last edited by BLK RUBI ON 40s; 02-18-2011 at 12:52 PM.
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post #2 of 42 Old 02-18-2011, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Heres a quote I just noticed RK said about the issue a couple days ago in my other thread.:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Krawler Suspension View Post
Guys

If you would like, add a some gussets to the mounts to distribute the load and weld heat at this location. That will help out alot and make it less prone to failure. A 5 link rear with both the upper and lower control arms either in line or outboard of the frame puts a tremendous amount of stress on the components and mounts under articulation. Trust us. Our Pure Performance Ram HD Long Arm mounts are crazy beefy because of this fact. If you distribute the load, you will be good to go.

RK

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post #3 of 42 Old 02-18-2011, 03:22 PM
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Mine broke in the same manner. The bracket broke at that bend on the trail, and I heard a thumping noise going over bumps. Stopped to take a look and the bracket was broken, but the welds were 100% fine. Limped it back to the rausc creek parking lot very slowly but the frame couldn't handle the extra stress on such a very small surface area and with the welds still holding, ripped off a piece of my frame. It's fixed now but man what a pain in the ass. No one should have to worry about breaking the frame on trail rides, an axle or suspension part yes, but not the fucking frame.


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post #4 of 42 Old 02-18-2011, 05:03 PM
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My control arms broke off as well. The rears tore off the frame apart. It wasn't bad welds. It was bad geometry. I had a 6" lift and was running 41" on D-60's.

You can see the damage and rebuild in this thread.
http://www.jkcrawlers.com/index.php/topic,635.0.html

It is a fundamental problem with a 4 arm set up.

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post #5 of 42 Old 02-19-2011, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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I wonder if teraflex knows this then. I assumed last time the welds were bad, thus resulting in breaking the bracket. If the bracket is flat out too weak and breaks first, well that IMO is a huge design flaw. I feel bad to for the shop that installed these brackets cause I stopped going there and giving them my business thinking it was there fault, when in reality it was TERAFLEX's fault for making a weak LA bracket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHandRubi View Post
My control arms broke off as well. The rears tore off the frame apart. It wasn't bad welds. It was bad geometry. I had a 6" lift and was running 41" on D-60's.

You can see the damage and rebuild in this thread.
http://www.jkcrawlers.com/index.php/topic,635.0.html

It is a fundamental problem with a 4 arm set up.
The geometry isnt bad IMO, it has tremendious down travel and up travel in the rear w/ little body roll. Flat out teraflex just made an extremely weak bracket and it sucks that some of us had to be there guinea pigs in testing it. And I also think we're being extremly nice about it given the circumstances. Teraflex needs to step it up on this one and not blame there problems on something else. This is especially true because they obviously didnt know thier brackets were the weak point; hence them making gussets reinforce the welds and not the fold.

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post #6 of 42 Old 02-19-2011, 04:30 PM
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Damn, not again... That sucks Scott.

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post #7 of 42 Old 02-19-2011, 04:48 PM
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Ive tired to get some into out of TF like is they made a thinner control arm joint. The joint body is too thick and hits the bracket before it gets to full misalignment.


So far ive been told I installed the joints wrong. . Thanks guys.


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post #8 of 42 Old 02-19-2011, 05:21 PM
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Is this consistent with all their LCG kits? I'm running the 3" on 35s...should I be watching out for this as well?
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post #9 of 42 Old 02-19-2011, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo11 View Post
Is this consistent with all their LCG kits? I'm running the 3" on 35s...should I be watching out for this as well?
Ask highoctane about that one. 35s with the 3" and broke it the same way I did. Id keep an eye out or just beef up their bracket at the fold so it never happens.
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post #10 of 42 Old 02-19-2011, 07:55 PM
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QUOTE:
Cmon bro... Its not necessarily a "must have" fix for all wheelers. From what I've seen its from metal fatigue/stress from continous abuse like most breaks in bracketry or welds. Like I said before, I wheel and $hit happens. We all shouldnt expect free stuff just because we abuse something and it finally broke. Its like demanding new skid plates after continously abusing them on rocks and finally broke them. Yeah there designed to endure damage, but ALL PRODUCTS HAVE LIMITS... This carnage is pretty rare and NO ONE that Ive have seen aside from Highoctane and myself have posted about it. Moreover, I was one of the lucky ones who was able to buy one of the first LCG 6" kits 2 years ago, and trully test its durabillity through some hard wheeling. I was thrilled this awesome kit lasted as long as it did with only this amount of MINOR breakage. From what I've seen with many top of the line kits from Rock Krawler to Rubicon Express on any form of wranglers including YJs and TJS as well as our own JKs, NONE has with stood this amount of abuse and lasted as long without some type of failure as the LCG kit by TERAFLEX... When they do fix it, we should all embrace their support and support them back buying the extra strength. Just my opinion

It appears that they admitted in your last thread that the top bracket requires reinforcement for the top shelf kit ass crawling that you do. Looks like they did find a fix for it for $18.99 per side? I think they should give you the upgrade and even pay you some shop labor based upon how cool you were the FIRST time.
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post #11 of 42 Old 02-19-2011, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjcraig7 View Post

It appears that they admitted in your last thread that the top bracket requires reinforcement for the top shelf kit ass crawling that you do. Looks like they did find a fix for it for $18.99 per side? I think they should give you the upgrade and even pay you some shop labor based upon how cool you were the FIRST time.
Yea the gussets would have been nice to have, but im not one to beg or ask for free stuff. It is weird though that other people were given those gussets for free, while I was excluded. Moreover, in the last thread I was under the impression it was the welds fault, but now its apparent that the teraflex bracket at the fold is to blame. Just trying to stress the fact teraflex is indeed responsible, but I dout anything beneficial will come from this. At th very least people who have these kits can makeup their mind about strengthening the bracket to prevent future failure and drama on the trail.
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post #12 of 42 Old 02-19-2011, 09:50 PM
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I have just a regular lift from them and had issues, I got the run around so fucking bad that It got me banned from over there, no big loss. Then a year ago the rear sway links crapper out and the tf rep that occasionally post on here sent me a new set. I shit you not, 5 days after installing them they had a heavy coat of rust on them. I will admit I live on the gulf coast but it was parked in the driveway the whole week. I've said it before and I'll say it again, they may have been a great company before the release of the jk and maybe the first year of it's release of it, after that it seems something must have changed. I feel all the parts of my kit came from china, the reason that I feel this way is because I was a quality control inspector for a company that used various manufacturers in china and there were way too many things in common in smaller details. I may be wrong but it was very pretty in the box but looking deeper into revealed a lot.

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post #13 of 42 Old 02-20-2011, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK RUBI ON 40s View Post
Yea the gussets would have been nice to have, but im not one to beg or ask for free stuff. It is weird though that other people were given those gussets for free, while I was excluded. Moreover, in the last thread I was under the impression it was the welds fault, but now its apparent that the teraflex bracket at the fold is to blame. Just trying to stress the fact teraflex is indeed responsible, but I dout anything beneficial will come from this. At th very least people who have these kits can makeup their mind about strengthening the bracket to prevent future failure and drama on the trail.
mine cracked twice. and got them installed for free. its not cool! I understand your concerns. but there's a penalty for "US" that are first in everything.
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post #14 of 42 Old 02-20-2011, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK RUBI ON 40s View Post
but I dout anything beneficial will come from this. At th very least people who have these kits can makeup their mind about strengthening the bracket to prevent future failure and drama on the trail.
I think that you answered your own doubts. The benefit of your post is that other members on here will go out and design a fix themselves, or purchase the cheap TF solution. If this system was on my rig, and I know what I know now, I wouldn't take it out again without a fix (period).

Additionally, I think the whole China chit simply brings the . If this bracketry was made in China it would still be a 100% TF problem. This is obviously an engineering and design issue, not a manufacturing process or material problem (though an engineering problem could lead to a process or material problem). China production has nothing to do with nothing, unless you are buying drywall, or lead painted children toys,....er, or plasticized baby formula products.
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post #15 of 42 Old 02-20-2011, 11:24 AM
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I have a brand new TF LCG 4" LA sitting in the boxes in my basement. Not sure where the made in China comes from, but I can post pics of any component if someone wants.
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post #16 of 42 Old 02-20-2011, 12:07 PM
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I dont think made in China should have any factor in this. It really is irrelevant to be honest. I dont know if some of their parts are made overseas or not. My opinion on this, as a consumer who has the 6" LCG LA... Their engineering and design is one that put a high level of stress on this particular bracket. Adding a "bend" with a press brake weakens the metal, and unfortunately it is not further supported with gussets or another method.

All we can really ask any manufacturer of parts to do is use their knowledge and experience to make a good design, then manufacturer it in a high quality manner, and ultimately support the products they put on the market. TF designed this system, and now it seems their design was not sufficient for the application. They created some gussets to help when this problem first came up, and apparently it doesnt seem to be enough. Hopefully, they will step up and create solution for this.

Unfortunately, they have been absent from JKO for a while now... at least on a regular basis. I guess this is an opportunity for them to show what their customer service is. For me, it has always been stellar. Joe has typically done a great job of taking care of his customers. This will be interesting to see how they address things and I am hopeful they do it correctly...

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post #17 of 42 Old 02-20-2011, 12:46 PM
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I researched the shit out of lifts before I bit the bullet and bought Teraflex. Looking at the components I see no evidence of cheaply sourced or manufactured parts. I do understand that this issue was in the engineering, and I also understand that the new gussets may not be the fix for these lifts. I have sent Joe a PM to see what his thoughts are on this, as I know he runs a 4" LCG on his personal Jeep. I just wanted to know why someone would think these parts were made in China. Everything I see looks to be of great quality.
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post #18 of 42 Old 02-20-2011, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubiJK View Post
Unfortunately, they have been absent from JKO for a while now... at least on a regular basis. I guess this is an opportunity for them to show what their customer service is. For me, it has always been stellar. Joe has typically done a great job of taking care of his customers. This will be interesting to see how they address things and I am hopeful they do it correctly...
Joe is the man

on a side note.. this is not explicit for the 6" system. it's the LA kit that's affected!
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post #19 of 42 Old 02-20-2011, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lo2aY View Post
Joe is the man

on a side note.. this is not explicit for the 6" system. it's the LA kit that's affected!
Joe was cool over at jkf, but in general teraflex including Joe shows no love over here. I think thats a huge reason Poly P and Rock Krawler get so much business from JKO members. They're here all the time helping out, making suggestions, and correcting issues both customer and part related.

Back on topic: Lo2ay is correct in the fact that all types of tf long arm kits have expirenced this throughout the threads. 3" kits on 35s to 6" kits on 41s; high miles to low miles, it is bar none a common problem.

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post #20 of 42 Old 02-20-2011, 01:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubiJK View Post
Their engineering and design is one that put a high level of stress on this particular bracket. Adding a "bend" with a press brake weakens the metal, and unfortunately it is not further supported with gussets or another method.

All we can really ask any manufacturer of parts to do is use their knowledge and experience to make a good design, then manufacturer it in a high quality manner, and ultimately support the products they put on the market. TF designed this system, and now it seems their design was not sufficient for the application. They created some gussets to help when this problem first came up, and apparently it doesnt seem to be enough. Hopefully, they will step up and create solution for this.
You hit the nail on the head when explaining this.... Its not like were bashing them or saying the kits suck. We're simply letting them know its a common problem quite a bit of us are experiencing, and it needs to be addressed CORRECTLY.

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post #21 of 42 Old 02-21-2011, 08:33 AM
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Any TeraFlex customer with a JK long arm kit that doesn't have these brackets in the picture below, please contact TeraFlex. Send a PM here or send a email to Joe in customer service at [email protected] will send them out for free to anyone with a TeraFlex long arm that doesn't have them. These brackets have been included in the JK long arm kits for sometime now.




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post #22 of 42 Old 02-21-2011, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeraFlex View Post
Any TeraFlex customer with a JK long arm kit that doesn't have these brackets in the picture below, please contact TeraFlex. Send a PM here or send a email to Joe in customer service at [email protected] will send them out for free to anyone with a TeraFlex long arm that doesn't have them. These brackets have been included in the JK long arm kits for sometime now.
Thanks, I'll PM you for them. However, that still doesnt justify the fact that the first time the issue was brought up, you guys blamed the problem on the welds instead of your brackets. Personally, I stopped giving the shop business (desert rat) after those statements were made, which is definitely unfair to them. I know of others who had the same issue with these brackets and did the same with other shops. Furthermore, it also doesnt fix my jeep or pay for the damage or repairs that myself and others had to experience when we assumed it was our fault due to the welds because of you. Taking responsibility would be nice, as well as admitting that you guys were wrong to blame something when your R&D department really didnt research the issue as much as it was needed. Lastly, after testing the weak points personally and with others, I still feel that that gusset is insufficient as a fix. Why would you place the gusset there when the first spot to break is at the bracket fold? You guys need to strengthen your bracket there for a huge strength increase. Im not saying your gusset won't help a little bit, just not the most effective spot when indeed the welds were fine in the beginning.

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post #23 of 42 Old 02-21-2011, 02:56 PM
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Evidently, they are VERY aware of the problem, if they have engineered a "fix" for it, and are supplying it to the customers for no charge. Thats not just good business, thats just plain ol cover your ass.

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post #24 of 42 Old 02-22-2011, 04:21 PM
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What the hell are these?

This thread made me go back and take a look at my Tera LA kit. I purchased it in November of last year (a little over 90 days ago). I checked and found that the new reinforcing brackets are not installed. Evolution Off Road did the install and I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing, but no brackets! I checked the box of take-off parts Mel returned to me and there they were! WTF I thought to myself, Why didn't Mel's guys install these? I poured over the installation instructions and found nothing about these new brackets. It's no wonder the shop didn't install them, unless they were psychic they'd have no idea what the hell they were. So now I'll take the jeep back to the shop and pay a little more to install them. Kind of a PITA!
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post #25 of 42 Old 02-22-2011, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chromedome View Post
This thread made me go back and take a look at my Tera LA kit. I purchased it in November of last year (a little over 90 days ago). I checked and found that the new reinforcing brackets are not installed. Evolution Off Road did the install and I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing, but no brackets! I checked the box of take-off parts Mel returned to me and there they were! WTF I thought to myself, Why didn't Mel's guys install these? I poured over the installation instructions and found nothing about these new brackets. It's no wonder the shop didn't install them, unless they were psychic they'd have no idea what the hell they were. So now I'll take the jeep back to the shop and pay a little more to install them. Kind of a PITA!
Tell Mel to bill Teraflex. If the kit came with them and were supposed to be installed, they should have done it, and TF should have instructed them so.

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OKAY FUCKMOUTH.
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