How much time would YOU give a company? - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 08-04-2010, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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How much time would YOU give a company?

So I face a conundrum. I won't provide the details, just take a hypothetical situation and tell me what YOU would do.

You own 'X' product from 'X' company. The company is renowned for all the right things - top-quality product, good service, and innovation (and the prices you'd expect for those qualities). You have spent a LOT of $$ with 'X' company in a pretty short amount of time. You really like everything about 'X' product.

You later discover an innocent but substantial design flaw in 'X' product. This is not an inconsequential flaw, one that not only threatens to cause 'X' product to self-destruct but actually threatens the safety of the vehicle occupants should it fail. You describe it and promise pictures to follow.

You contact 'X' company about 'X' product in a professional and courteous manner. You like these guys, and are actually interested in helping them understand the issue in case it affects others as well as get it resolved for yourself. It's a big deal and needs to be addressed. You get a reply via email and VM from 'X' company representative stating that the newer version of the product is constructed in a way that addressed the original flaw, with a return number. No mention of actually handling your specific problem. Not too bad, right?

Then you send another email to 'X' company representative with some other brass CCd, with clear photo as promised, and plainly ask 'What should I do about this problem? What is the solution here?' You do it twice, with no response over a couple days time. Meanwhile, a competitor is circling like a shark, with quality products and a smoking deal, hoping to pull you away.

How long do you wait for a response before jumping ship to the competition? Again, this is not like 'I am missing a screw with my lift kit'. This is a serious problem in an expensive product that could fail on you and cause serious injury. I'm thinking it should be addressed thoroughly and promptly, and not have me waiting around for a reply. I'm a passive aggressive type and speak the loudest with my wallet, so if I feel like I'm not being taken seriously I'll jump ship without more than a peep.

How long would you give 'em?

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post #2 of 30 Old 08-04-2010, 02:40 PM
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I would do one of three things:
1: I would x.
2: I would y.
3: I would z.

If those things didnt work, i would go to plan b.


xxxxx x

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post #3 of 30 Old 08-04-2010, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Defector View Post
............
You contact 'X' company about 'X' product in a professional and courteous manner. You like these guys, and are actually interested in helping them understand the issue in case it affects others as well as get it resolved for yourself. It's a big deal and needs to be addressed. You get a reply via email and VM from 'X' company representative stating that the newer version of the product is constructed in a way that addressed the original flaw, with a return number. No mention of actually handling your specific problem. Not too bad, right?

How long would you give 'em?
Clarification?? What is this a return authorization number? Does said company want you to box up the "thing" and send it back?

If it's as dangerous as you say I would remove the offending item as quickly as possible....... or not drive the Jeep which in our case would be very hard as it's the wife's dd.

Less than a week for a real answer to a serious problem.

........My other hobbies include: Older cars and trucks; Spending money on unfinished projects, and continuing to not finish them...

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For my money, the most notable part of this thread is all the fallout from bsack's fortune cookie factory explosion.
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post #4 of 30 Old 08-04-2010, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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For clarity's sake, the return number was a phone number....no mention of a return or shipping anything back.

A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.
-Milton Friedman
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post #5 of 30 Old 08-04-2010, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STUPIDFACE View Post
I would do one of three things:
1: I would x.
2: I would y.
3: I would z.

If those things didnt work, i would go to plan b.


xxxxx x
Boy, I tell ya....I'm gonna send GayForLife over to break off his tab A in your slot B.....

A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.
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post #6 of 30 Old 08-04-2010, 03:07 PM
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So you called the number and still got ignored? How long are we talking about here and are there any events going on that would slow a response?

........My other hobbies include: Older cars and trucks; Spending money on unfinished projects, and continuing to not finish them...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExWrench View Post
For my money, the most notable part of this thread is all the fallout from bsack's fortune cookie factory explosion.
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post #7 of 30 Old 08-04-2010, 05:14 PM
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if it is a design flaw that might cause serious injury you should post up what the flaw is and what product it is in case a fellow jeeper is using the product.
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post #8 of 30 Old 08-04-2010, 06:05 PM
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I'd give them a day, two tops as a curtesy, they are busy and everyone has a 'life and death' problem like:
1. I didn't get my 2 free stickers when I bought your stuff
2. I bought your parts froma nother guy who bought on ebay used, iyt is scratched and I want it replaced under warranty
3. I like to bitch about everything, I get free t-shirts that way

Once thet can see and validate the situation as a legitamite concern (inside of 48 hours) it should be on them to be greatful you came to them for their own diligent liability mitigation.

Outside of two blown off calls / emails and 2+ days I'd rip them a new shit hole the size of Detroit (biggest shit hole I know). I'd be all over them like a rash, I'd let their competition know their flaw and i'd cc them on every trash talking post and email I sent.

If someone is willing to sell shit as sugar, well it will taste bad but so be it, if someone is selling AIDS as a common cold, its gonna kill someone. Fuck them before they fuck you!

And remember its TOGTFO!

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post #9 of 30 Old 08-04-2010, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by X-Defector View Post
Boy, I tell ya....I'm gonna send GayForLife over to break off his tab A in your slot B.....
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post #10 of 30 Old 08-04-2010, 06:56 PM
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it depends on how large the company is. if its a smaller company, i would wait 2-3 days tops. large companies that have their stuff together, 1-2days. large companies that dont know whats going on, 1-2 hours.
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post #11 of 30 Old 08-04-2010, 06:57 PM
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Surely a lot of us might be running this product and no one wants to get hurt or hurt anyone else if said product fails and causes an accident. You have given the unknown company plenty of time and apparently they are not making you any more comfortable with the situation.

If it is the safety issue you claim it is... air it out.
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post #12 of 30 Old 08-04-2010, 07:00 PM
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Yeah a week is long enough, and it would be real nice to know the partnand the flaw, I have many parts not mentioned in my sig and many others do as well. I understand tread lightly, send them a link to this thread stating if this isn't resolved by the end of the day the vendor and flaw as well as the place purchased from will be posted by the end of their business day.

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Euroefx HID kit, high/low beam and fogs
Shrockworks rear full width, tire carrier

Post count from the "other" place when i was following the "herd" was 692 on 4-2-09, not a noob...

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post #13 of 30 Old 08-04-2010, 11:49 PM
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Word. Let it out.

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post #14 of 30 Old 08-05-2010, 12:02 AM
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Here's his Jeep as of two months ago:

Vehicle:
2009 Wrangler Rubicon 2-dr, 6-speed manual, Sunburst Orange (2009 only), Navigation system

Add-ons:

Suspension:
Poly Performance Stage 3 3-inch suspension kit (4-inch springs included)
Poly Performance Monotube shocks
Poly Performance Rear Track Bar
Poly Performance Front Track Bar
Poly Performance Steering Stabilizer

Drive train:
RCV Performance Axle Shafts
Superior EVO Rear axle shafts
Front Range Driveline custom 1310 yokes and shafts

Armor/bumpers:
Poly Performance Full Skid Set (not the budget set)
Poly Performance Rocker Guards
Poly Performance Gas Tank Skid
Benchmark Designs Evap Skid
Riddler Diff Covers
Rockhard Front Full-Width bumper
Rockhard Rear Bumper Tire Carrier
Rockhard muffler skid

Front axle:
Custom axle fab work by HD Customs – truss, skids, and C gussets

Wheels and tires:
Rugged Ridge wheels with machined edge
ProComp Extreme M/Ts – 35s

Electrical/recovery:
Benchmark Designs Dual Battery Smarty system
Two DieHard Platinum batteries
Superwinch EPi9.0s winch with synthetic line

Interior:
Q-tech floor liners front and rear
Coverking custom neoprene seat covers
Poly Performance grab handles

He mentioned the Rock Hard carrier is a "rattletrap" in another post, and HD Customs seems to fit his company description... Tough call.
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post #15 of 30 Old 08-05-2010, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nlgrav182 View Post
Here's his Jeep as of two months ago:

Vehicle:
2009 Wrangler Rubicon 2-dr, 6-speed manual, Sunburst Orange (2009 only), Navigation system

Add-ons:

Suspension:
Poly Performance Stage 3 3-inch suspension kit (4-inch springs included)
Poly Performance Monotube shocks
Poly Performance Rear Track Bar
Poly Performance Front Track Bar
Poly Performance Steering Stabilizer

Drive train:
RCV Performance Axle Shafts
Superior EVO Rear axle shafts
Front Range Driveline custom 1310 yokes and shafts

Armor/bumpers:
Poly Performance Full Skid Set (not the budget set)
Poly Performance Rocker Guards
Poly Performance Gas Tank Skid
Benchmark Designs Evap Skid
Riddler Diff Covers
Rockhard Front Full-Width bumper
Rockhard Rear Bumper Tire Carrier
Rockhard muffler skid

Front axle:
Custom axle fab work by HD Customs – truss, skids, and C gussets

Wheels and tires:
Rugged Ridge wheels with machined edge
ProComp Extreme M/Ts – 35s

Electrical/recovery:
Benchmark Designs Dual Battery Smarty system
Two DieHard Platinum batteries
Superwinch EPi9.0s winch with synthetic line

Interior:
Q-tech floor liners front and rear
Coverking custom neoprene seat covers
Poly Performance grab handles

He mentioned the Rock Hard carrier is a "rattletrap" in another post, and HD Customs seems to fit his company description... Tough call.
I would GUESS 'PP' due to one other thread someone had with 'PP', but seemed to be eventually resolved; the $$ claimed spent with company x; and multiple company representatives. BUT, I don't know what on the list would be a 'threat', except track bar could cause potential under circumstances.

I would think any company would be more responsive, particularly this day and age of instant feedback (forums), but I also feel some companies are embarrased, stall for time to correct... 100% correct prior to providing 'any' information back to the customer which may take an hour, a day, a week, months... depending on the complexity of the component.

I would suspect company x believes it is not a serious (calculated) risk that warrants immediate resolve and are working it, but can't tell you due to liability in the remote... 0.02% possiblity something does go wrong.

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." John Wayne - The Shootist


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Last edited by maverick; 08-05-2010 at 03:13 AM.
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post #16 of 30 Old 08-05-2010, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
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Couple of things.....

If by chance others are running this part and experiencing the same issue, if you spend any time under your Jeep you'll notice it. It's easily spotted. You can't see the problem per se, but the result is easily seen and you don't even really have to look for it, it will pop right out at you.

This problem was an innocent oversight in design - one I could have easily made myself - so I'm not looking to throw the company under the bus about it and slander them. I just want to see what they are going to do about it, since it is their flaw and I expect a reasonable resolution from them.

I will air the problem with photos if no acceptable response is provided within a day or two, in hopes of providing information about the condition to others who may be affected - no one should have to worry about the integrity of a critical part.

A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.
-Milton Friedman

Last edited by BADGER; 08-05-2010 at 07:24 AM.
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post #17 of 30 Old 08-05-2010, 07:34 AM
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Seeing as how you're from Parker are you sure the issue hasn't been caused by running over the abundant supply of Yuppies out there?

2009 JK Rubicon Unlimited. Rock Hard skids, Skidrow Control Arm Skids, Shrockworks bumpers. Pro Comp 2" Puck Lift.
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post #18 of 30 Old 08-05-2010, 08:04 AM
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Get under the Jeep to see the problem, spent a lot of money with them, always been happy, etc. and now we have a list of your mods and the company in question seems rather clear to me, but I could be wrong.

If it is really a safety issue, please tell. I am running some of the parts you are and if I have a potential issue, I would like to know about it.
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post #19 of 30 Old 08-05-2010, 10:32 AM
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is it the qtech floor mats? do they jamb the peddle like on toyotas? if so is all 73 HP from the jk too much to handle?

tell us, you know you want to

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post #20 of 30 Old 08-05-2010, 11:00 AM
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Here is my assumption...


Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Defector View Post
What would change:

1) Adjustable Johnny-joint control arms. The joint housings on these are so wide that they hit the bracket long before the joint nears its misalignment capabilities and creates stress on the brackets. Of course, once they hit the bracket and they keep trying to misalign, you're inviting the jam nuts or pinch bolts to come loose (keeping my pinch bolts tight is always fun). One end is usually poly or rubber anyway, so they are always deflecting on some plane anyway. Then there's greasing and rebuilding....if I had to do it again, I'd go with JKS arms and be done with it.
When I read his thread that stated this, I thought, man, that doesn't sound good. I hope they get it taken care of for you. Maybe time to upgrade to some HD mounts? Or is it your pinch bolts/threads?

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post #21 of 30 Old 08-05-2010, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Defector View Post
Couple of things.....

If by chance others are running this part and experiencing the same issue, if you spend any time under your Jeep you'll notice it. It's easily spotted. You can't see the problem per se, but the result is easily seen and you don't even really have to look for it, it will pop right out at you.

This problem was an innocent oversight in design - one I could have easily made myself - so I'm not looking to throw the company under the bus about it and slander them. I just want to see what they are going to do about it, since it is their flaw and I expect a reasonable resolution from them.

I will air the problem with photos if no acceptable response is provided within a day or two, in hopes of providing information about the condition to others who may be affected - no one should have to worry about the integrity of a critical part.

I say air it out or delete the thread.. none of this half way stuff with people making guessing games out of it.

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post #22 of 30 Old 08-05-2010, 12:43 PM
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1. You must work for the movie industry because if this was a trailery I would have to watch the movie just to find out what the hell IT is and who THEY are.

2. It is possible that if you would actually tell us what you are dealing with someone on here may have already had the probelm and could help you with a specific solution.

3. If you let the cat out of the bag you may be helping a less mechanically inclined JK Owner identify a potential problem on their rig.

IM JUST SAYIN!!!!!!
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post #23 of 30 Old 08-05-2010, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, okay fellas, point taken. The company remains silent other than 'we fixed that problem on the newer ones', which sounds like an invitation to bug off and/or pay full prices for a replacement set, neither of which sounds like an acceptable solution to me. So, I'll snap some more photos tonight and post them as a PSA only, I'm not interested in trying to take the company to task publicly (although I bet they will have to field inquiries about their inaction). Looks like another company's gear will be making its way onto the Heep and this will figure strongly in my future purchases. Stand by for another couple hours....

A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.
-Milton Friedman
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post #24 of 30 Old 08-05-2010, 01:04 PM
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I say air it out or delete the thread.. none of this half way stuff with people making guessing games out of it.
x2... Plus adding the details here might help your solution get handled quicker than normal. Dont be afraid to "throw them under the bus". Posting an issue on here is gererally beneficial to most companies because they can demonestrate there good customer service skills and possible sway others into purchasing from them. And if they do nothing for you, then they deserve the negative criticism from this thread.

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post #25 of 30 Old 08-05-2010, 03:36 PM
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dude if your seat covers are getting bunched up and making your ass hurt take them off and let us know.

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