My letter to the local Jeep Stealership... - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 41 Old 06-12-2008, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
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My letter to the local Jeep Stealership...

To: Gary Mathews Motors Inc. Service Manager and District Manager, Sisk Automotive Service Manager and District Manager
Re: 2007 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon repairs – VIN XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.
Current Milage: 17054


On May 30, 2008, my 2007 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon was originally brought to the Gary Mathews Service Department with the following problem:
• Vehicle would not start
• All other power systems in vehicle were operable

A couple things were diagnosed as causing the problem and repaired/replaced:
• ABS Controller replaced
• PCM Replaced
• The problems with these two modules were blamed on aftermarket modifications to the battery tray
• I was also told that the swaybar disconnect motor was inoperable because of corrosion in the plug and that it was not a warrantable repair because it had “been underwater for a period of time.”
• Upon delivery of the vehicle back to me, I was told that plugging the swaybar disconnect motor back in would “fry or cause damage to the ABS Controller and the PCM, requiring them to be replaced again.”
o Swaybar motor was left unplugged

The vehicle was then taken to Sisk Automotive in Hopkinsville, KY to get a second opinion about the swaybar disconnect motor plug corrosion
• Sisk Automotive plugged the swaybar disconnect motor back in
• Immediately, the vehicle would not start, but all electrical systems seemed to work (the original problem that the vehicle was taken to Gary Mathews Motors Inc. Service Department for)
• DTC’s indicated:
o Loss of communication with CAN BUS
o Loss of communication with ABS Module
o Loss of communication with PCM

• When the swaybar disconnect motor was unplugged again, the vehicle was able to start and function properly, fixing the original problem that the vehicle was taken to Gary Mathews Motors Inc. for:
o Indicating no damage to the CAN BUS, PCM, or ABS Module had occurred.
o There was simply a loss of communication with above modules
o That if the tech at Gary Mathews Motors Inc. had unplugged the swaybar disconnect motor first, he would have seen that there was no damage to the PCM and the ABS Module that he later replaced. There was simply a loss of communication to the modules

This is evidence that the tech at Gary Matthews misdiagnosed and replaced modules that were not defective.
• The modules that were replaced simply had a loss of communication to them
• Had the tech unplugged the swaybar motor in the first place, the vehicle would have started immediately, just like it did at Sisk Automotive
• The original problem that the vehicle was brought to Gary Mathews Motors Inc. for could be completely reproduce by plugging the swaybar motor back in
• The original problem that the vehicle was brought to Gary Mathews Motors Inc. for could have been fixed by simply unplugging the swaybar motor
• The tech at Gary Mathews Motors Inc. jumped to the unwarranted and incorrect conclusion that modifications to the vehicle’s battery tray had caused the problem
• The original problem is obviously caused by the corrosion in the swaybar disconnect motor
o There was obviously a factory defect that allowed water to enter this connector
o This connector should be water-proof, evidenced below by advertising on the Jeep website and the 2007 Jeep Wrangler owner’s manual

Gary Mathews Motors Inc. told me that the swaybar disconnect motor could not be fixed under warranty because it had “been under water for a period of time.”
• Do they think I parked it in a lake overnight?
• A Quote from the Jeep website at this link: http://www.jeep.com/en/4x4/trail_rated/
o “Hit that riverbed with confidence. Trail Rated Jeep 4x4’s feature additional electrical and body sealing, along with a high air intake location for optimum water fording capability. Note: Do not attempt water fording unless depth is known to be less than 19 inches.”
• A Quote from the 2007 Jeep Wrangler owner’s manual
o “Avoid driving in standing water deeper than 20 inches, and reduce speed….” Suggesting that the vehicle is capable of driving in water up to 20 inches in depth.
• The 2007 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon in question has a 3.5” lift and 35” tires. This equates to the swaybar disconnect motor plug in question being five inches higher off the ground than a completely stock 2007 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon with no lift and 32” tires
o When measuring the distance from the ground to the swaybar disconnect motor plug on my vehicle, that is five inches higher off the ground than stock, it is exactly 19 inches from the ground.
o This means that a stock 2007 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon would have the same plug on the swaybar disconnect motor at 14 inches from the ground
o This is well within the 19 inches of water that the vehicle is advertised as being able to ford.
o This is, along with the Jeep website advertising, and the information in the owner’s manual suggests that this specific plug SHOULD be water-proof with “additional electrical sealing,” as advertised on the Jeep website.

1. For the above reasons, the swaybar disconnect motor corrosion problem on my vehicle is obviously a factory defect and should be repaired under warranty, which Gary Mathews Motors Inc. refused to do. Failure to produce repairs under warranty will be considered a breach of contract because of failure to honor the warranty on the vehicle.

2. As evidenced above, the tech at Gary Mathews Motors Inc. mis-diagnosed the cause of the original problem, and erroneously blamed aftermarket modifications in order to avoid fixing the problems under warranty (or maybe he is just incompetent and/or made a mistake). One can only assume that this is a pattern with other customers as well and that Gary Mathews Motors Inc. would have a history of trying to refuse warrantable repairs to other vehicles. Whether it was done purposely, out of incompetence, or a simple mistake, doesn’t change the result of the mis-diagnosis and superfluous replacement of modules that were not damaged.

3. The result of this mis-diagnosis of the problem resulted in $1473.23 of unneeded repairs. The results of plugging in the defective swaybar disconnect motor show that the PCM was NOT shorted and the ABS module was NOT damaged. There was merely a loss of communication to them.

4. $1473.23 should be immediately refunded for these unnecessary repairs.

5. The vehicle history that that is available for all Jeep service department’s to see should be cleared of incorrect statements made in it, as evidenced in this letter. These false vehicle history statements are preventing Sisk Automotive from repairing the electric swaybar disconnect motor under warranty for fear that Chrysler will deny it and Sisk will be stuck with the money out of their pockets.

Michael J. McNaught DDS
CPT, US Army Dental Corp
Fort Campbell, KY


-------------------------


Opinions? What do you think?



Are there any specific Jeep Customer Service e-mail addresses I should send this to?



---------------------

Last edited by mcnaught6; 06-12-2008 at 09:39 PM.
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post #2 of 41 Old 06-12-2008, 09:33 PM
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It really sucks that your going through these problems!

As for the letter... VERY professional.

Good luck!

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post #3 of 41 Old 06-12-2008, 10:17 PM
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Seems well written, hope you hear some good news soon...

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post #4 of 41 Old 06-12-2008, 10:51 PM
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Well done letter. I think you have a good argument on all of your points - let us know how it works out.

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post #5 of 41 Old 06-13-2008, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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i sent the letter to the chrysler customer service. that was useless. i got a reply that basically said i need to take it up with the dealership. this was the gist of the e-mail:

"Because dealerships are independently owned businesses, they are responsible for addressing concerns directly related to their sales and service activities, as well as their personnel. Although we do not have the authority to resolve concerns related to dealer workmanship, service scheduling, or repair pricing, you may want to pursue the matter directly with the dealership management for further resolution. Information received from customers such as you enables better evaluation of dealers' service activities. Your complaint will be retained in the dealer's file. "


i spoke to the service manager on the phone, and he just tried to argue with me. i faxed him the letter and told him i would stop by his office after work today to discuss the letter with him.
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post #6 of 41 Old 06-13-2008, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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i just got done "talking" to Keith Roberts, the service manager at Gary Mathews.
he didn't want to hear anything i had to say. he told me that they are not doing anything about it, and i can do what i want. he said, "when i'm done with this, you're going to need my personal blessing to ever get anything covered under warranty on that jeep, because i'm going to make sure the entire warranty is voided."

i asked him if this is how he treats all his customers and all the soldiers in the area. he replied:
"I spent ten years in the Army, so you can take your Dental Corp and shove it up your a$$."

Last edited by mcnaught6; 06-13-2008 at 04:39 PM.
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post #7 of 41 Old 06-13-2008, 04:39 PM
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hello, regional manager?
I'd like to talk to you for a moment....


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post #8 of 41 Old 06-13-2008, 08:58 PM
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Man, that guy is a dick! i had the same problem with my sway bar disco, but my dealer took care of it. They first tried repacking the connection after cleaning it because it was corroded. When that did not work, they put in a whole new unit from a Rubi on the lot. I still am a little leary of the quality of the mechanics at my dealer, but at least they did not dick me around. Good luck.

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post #9 of 41 Old 06-13-2008, 11:00 PM
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re:bad visit

These asshole dealers give the good dealers like us a bad name. Unbelievable....

Did you talk to the stores GM?

Call 1800 chrysler?

If all that fails get a lawyer...

Jason

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post #10 of 41 Old 06-14-2008, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdemonto View Post
These asshole dealers give the good dealers like us a bad name. Unbelievable....

Did you talk to the stores GM?

Call 1800 chrysler?

If all that fails get a lawyer...

Jason
i sent an e-mail to chrysler customer service. that was useless. how do i get in touch with or find out who the general manager is?
i haven't called 1800chrysler.
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post #11 of 41 Old 06-14-2008, 09:55 AM
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Sue 'em in small claims court! Judges have been screwed by dealer service too!
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post #12 of 41 Old 06-14-2008, 10:20 AM
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I had a problem with my edisco that was probably self inflicted. I took it to the local dealership and they absolutely bent over backwards to get it covered under warranty. The service manager ended up calling Jeep several times to make it possible to cover it under warranty.

I think dealerships get a bad name in most forums. Some, like the one described here, definitely deserve it. But there are some good ones out there, too. When any of us experience the horrible service described in this thread, we should really vote with our feet and try to find a local dealership that is "off-road friendly". Three are some out there.
post #13 of 41 Old 06-14-2008, 04:45 PM
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thats absolutly bull****. i guess ill prob have the same problem because my pos e-disco hasent worked in months. i sometimes wish i kept my old 97 instead of wasting 30k on my new jeep at least i could work on it.

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post #14 of 41 Old 06-14-2008, 05:51 PM
 
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Hate to be the devil's advocate, but any drastic modifications to the stock JK leaves it open to interpretation...a good many delaers will reject all warranty work...some even, as they do here in Tidewater, sell "new" JK's that have ridiculous lifts installed by the dealership with an addendum sticker...essentially, the buyer accepts the modifications at his own risk...warranty null and void...
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post #15 of 41 Old 06-19-2008, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustoff '68 View Post
Hate to be the devil's advocate, but any drastic modifications to the stock JK leaves it open to interpretation...a good many delaers will reject all warranty work...some even, as they do here in Tidewater, sell "new" JK's that have ridiculous lifts installed by the dealership with an addendum sticker...essentially, the buyer accepts the modifications at his own risk...warranty null and void...
sigh.... I guess they never heard of the Magnuson-Moss act?

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act

Just search magnuson moss act http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=mag...=UTF-8&fr=moz2

And you get all sorts of hits.

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post #16 of 41 Old 06-19-2008, 08:54 PM
 
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sigh.... I guess they never heard of the Magnuson-Moss act?

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act

Just search magnuson moss act http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=mag...=UTF-8&fr=moz2

And you get all sorts of hits.

I'm very familiar with the Mag/Moss Act...what you may not be familiar with is a dealer may, at his discretion, sell a vehicle "AS IS", new or not...now, a vehicle highly modified by an owner coming in for warranty work post modifications is NOT covered by Mag/Moss...it doesn't take rocket science to prove that modifications to a vehicle not endorsed by or approved by a manufacturer essentially voids the warranty...this has been shown time and again in court cases involving modified vehicles and warranty claims, that the owner of such vehicles accepts the fact that he may be negatively impacting the warrantability of a vehicle by altering same from original equipment status.
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post #17 of 41 Old 06-19-2008, 10:39 PM
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Contact the Better Business Bureau also.
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post #18 of 41 Old 06-19-2008, 11:01 PM
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That was going me my suggestion as well, BBB helped my mother in law with a Dodge dealership's service dept. Took a while but they got the situation resolved.

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post #19 of 41 Old 06-20-2008, 12:42 AM
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Sux all right. BBB might be the only way to go but something tells me any other route will cost you around the $14xx.xx that you're trying to recoupe. Not saying don't try, but just something to think about. I know it's no consilation but at least you and everyone you know knows that dealership blows.
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post #20 of 41 Old 06-20-2008, 07:07 AM
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Yeah negative word of mouth will hurt them more than paying you back for the warranty coverage...

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post #21 of 41 Old 07-03-2008, 07:42 PM
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What ended up happening?
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post #22 of 41 Old 07-06-2008, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollbar13 View Post
That was going me my suggestion as well, BBB helped my mother in law with a Dodge dealership's service dept. Took a while but they got the situation resolved.
BBB can do no more and will do no more then what you can do yourself. They are not some magic organization (who asks for your money to resolve your problems)
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post #23 of 41 Old 07-06-2008, 09:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grover View Post
What ended up happening?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnaught6 View Post
i just got done "talking" to Keith Roberts, the service manager at Gary Mathews.
he didn't want to hear anything i had to say. he told me that they are not doing anything about it, and i can do what i want. he said, "when i'm done with this, you're going to need my personal blessing to ever get anything covered under warranty on that jeep, because i'm going to make sure the entire warranty is voided."

i asked him if this is how he treats all his customers and all the soldiers in the area. he replied:
"I spent ten years in the Army, so you can take your Dental Corp and shove it up your a$$."

I think this is what may have happened......
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post #24 of 41 Old 07-06-2008, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Dustoff '68 View Post
I think this is what may have happened......
and he gives up.... surely not?!?

The dealer I bought my Jeep at (my G/F works there and they all know me) Never fixes anything, always blames the defects on me. I found a new dealer and have had better luck. you have another dealer around?
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post #25 of 41 Old 07-07-2008, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustoff '68 View Post
Hate to be the devil's advocate, but any drastic modifications to the stock JK leaves it open to interpretation...a good many delaers will reject all warranty work...some even, as they do here in Tidewater, sell "new" JK's that have ridiculous lifts installed by the dealership with an addendum sticker...essentially, the buyer accepts the modifications at his own risk...warranty null and void...
I recomend Greenbriar on Military, NOT Green Gifford (they are a bunch of fawktards) And I did not see any addendum stickers on their lifted ones.
I have never had any issues with warrentee work and they like my jeep as well.
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