Offroad Evolution: What They Won't Tell You - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 64 Old 10-11-2009, 10:38 PM Thread Starter
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Offroad Evolution: What They Won't Tell You

I'm going to try and not let the fact that I'm pissed off affect my comments on OE's product, but there's no promises. I bought the coilover conversion kit from OE and when I called I asked them all sorts of questions. The most important one being, "Will your product work with the stock arms or short arms?" They said something to the affect of "Yeah no problem lots of people do." So I got them. About a year ago we put them on and they worked great no problems and then one day I notice some rust on the upper tower mount, right on the flange where the shock bolts in place. Of course you know that the powder coat cracking is only a sign of something worse underneath, such as a stress fracture. I called OE and spoke directly with Mel who assured me that he'd never run into this issue and that they extensively test their product "jumping" and what ever else they do. Well after some looking and putting the front axle at full droop we notice that because of the short arms the axle moves in a tighter radius, putting extra stress on the upper mount. An easy fix really, just reenforce the weld and put on long arms. So, I did that and no more problems. By the way I've got the TF Long arm up front and my ride improved a ton. I recommend them. My jeep is an 08 Rubi 4 door. Also I've spoken with more than a couple of people about this and all but OE let me know that they'd heard of some issues with OE's product. I understand that nothing is perfect and **** happens during R&D and during the first year or two of new products. For example TF's lift kit had some problems and by the time I'd called them about it they already knew and were even asking if I'd run into any others and told me about new parts for the same kit and sent them to me at no charge. They sent me the new replacement parts and were completely helpful, so thanks to Joe over there at TF.
I apologize to Tera Flex for associating there great product and customer service with a company that doesn't believe in it.

Customer service is the most important thing and without the customers you've got no business. As an entrepreneur I truly understand what this means.

I'm happy to do your R&D for you Mel, now send me my check and the new parts........

Lastly, I apologize for the poor photo quality I only had my phone with me, but you can clearly see how this particular example could lead to a very bad day on the trail.

I GUESS AT OE THERE MOTO IS, "I DON'T CARE IF IT WORKS, SELL AND WE'LL LIE ABOUT IT LATER..."



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post #2 of 64 Old 10-11-2009, 10:43 PM
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Im a little confused here....
you called him and told him your powder coat was cracked. He said what?

then you replaced the stock arms with long arms and you liked it.....

wheres the problem here lol what am i missing?

Looks like your shock mount is rusting a little.
Hit it with a rattle can and go about your business?

or is it cracked?

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post #3 of 64 Old 10-11-2009, 11:06 PM
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I thought their coil over kit yields like 6" of lift...no matter what anyone tells you, who would think that stock arms are okay with that amount of lift? Also, when I inquired about the kit (almost immediately after it was released) one of the first things they told me is I would need a new set of arms...

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post #4 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 04:43 AM
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Wow....nice write up

edit - I'd love to see this thread posted over on PJK. Maybe in the for sale section?

on a serious note - i hope you get your rig fixed.

Last edited by Grant211; 10-12-2009 at 05:20 AM.
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post #5 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 05:24 AM
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I'm confused to... Powder coat failure at the weld point is very common (most contamination). All it takes is a pin hole to let water in and start the flacking and rusting. Can you visually see a crack/ fracture? If not did some NDT it for you?

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post #6 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 06:23 AM
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Yeah, agree on the rusting welds and flaking pc. Pretty common. Curious to know if the OP had it thoroughly checked for actual weld failure.

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post #7 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderingtrail View Post
I'm confused to... Powder coat failure at the weld point is very common (most contamination). All it takes is a pin hole to let water in and start the flacking and rusting.
X10 Cracked/peeling powder coat is not necessarily a sign of stress fracture or other failure of the metal.

I've run the front EVO coilovers for some time with "short" arms and flexed it out on a regular basis and have no signs of failure whatsoever.
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post #8 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOWREVER View Post
Well after some looking and putting the front axle at full droop we notice that because of the short arms the axle moves in a tighter radius, putting extra stress on the upper mount.
At full flex how much further back is the axle with "short" arms compared to long arms? Not much I'd guess.

Are the shock heims binding? They don't on mine at full flex, so I'm intrigued as to where the stress is coming from.

If the metal is failing, and it is hard to tell from your pic, but doesn't look like it is, I don't think it is from having "short" arms.
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post #9 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 07:20 AM
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Uuuuummmmm.... Why is this in the write-up section? Shouldn't it be in the b!tch and moan section? I'm just sayin'...

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post #10 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOWREVER View Post
And Phil despite what you think there was a difference, we did check all of the suspension and we found that the pull on the axle toward the center of the jeep at full flex was the cause.
I'm not sure what difference long arms would make to the axle pulling to the center, that is dictated by the track bar. The control arms dictate the arc the axle moves front to back not side to side.

I don't dispute you have a crack in the bracket, although from the picture you posted I can't see it, I just don't see how "short" arms would be the cause and how long arms would be the cure.
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post #11 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 08:52 AM
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If it were me...

I would call Mel, arrange to send the hoop back to him and have him send you another. This would 1) give him a chance to thoroughly inspect the hoop and make sure his product line is sound, or maybe it was just a failure in your particular piece, or even conclude that there was no failure at all other than peeling powder coat.

2) I/You would be satisfied. Or would you?

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post #12 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HITMONEY View Post
I would call Mel, arrange to send the hoop back to him and have him send you another.
That is a lot more work than you may think, you have to cut all your welds to get it off. The risk of cutting into the frame is there and welding another back on may contribute towards weakening the frame also.

I'm presuming he's strengthened it in the area he shows in the pic, which would be a whole lot easier than cutting the bracket off.
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post #13 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by PhilD View Post
That is a lot more work than you may think, you have to cut all your welds to get it off. The risk of cutting into the frame is there and welding another back on may contribute towards weakening the frame also.

I'm presuming he's strengthened it in the area he shows in the pic, which would be a whole lot easier than cutting the bracket off.
Good point... forgot they are welded on.. All I see talked about anymore are the bolt on kits.

I take it GOWREVER is not local to SoCal?

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post #14 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 09:17 AM
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I take it GOWREVER is not local to SoCal?
Around the corner from them according to his location, either way he can "go wherever" so shouldn't be problem
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post #15 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 09:28 AM
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I am trying to clarify if ORE has been given the proper opportunity to correct the problem if there is in fact a problem... like bring the rig to them and let them inspect it. If then nothing is done about it if there is a problem and you are basically shooed away without a resolution... well then it would be time to call out a company IMO.

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post #16 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HITMONEY View Post
I am trying to clarify if ORE has been given the proper opportunity to correct the problem if there is in fact a problem... like bring the rig to them and let them inspect it. If then nothing is done about it if there is a problem and you are basically shooed away without a resolution... well then it would be time to call out a company IMO.
Heard that

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post #17 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 09:43 AM
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I've had nothing but great customer service from them.

I guess you'll have to get us a better picture because all I see is powdercoat breaking away which is something that happens over time... Especially at welds. Powdercoat does not = invincible. Now I'm not saying it isn't due to stress at all so please understand we need a better pic.

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post #18 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 10:24 AM
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My 1st Gen LOD bumper is peeling also.. But it isn't from stress crackes.. It is due to the crappy powder coating that was being done.. So cracking and peeling powder coating isn't a sign of stress.. Time for some spray on bed liner..

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post #19 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 10:46 AM
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post #20 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by .:eMETAL:. View Post
I've had nothing but great customer service from them.

I guess you'll have to get us a better picture because all I see is powdercoat breaking away which is something that happens over time... Especially at welds. Powdercoat does not = invincible. Now I'm not saying it isn't due to stress at all so please understand we need a better pic.
I don't see a problem from the pic either. I'd hit it with a little bit of black rattle can.


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post #21 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 12:32 PM
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wait, i think im a bit confused... running short arms or long arms, it shouldnt be causing much stress differernce at the upper shock mount because the shock can pivit. Unless there was some unwanted binding going on like maybe the shock is getting pressed against the frame or something....right?

The OE shock tower mainly just holds the weight of the vehicle and IF the bracket wasnt built strong enough then i could understand the cracking
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post #22 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris85xlt View Post
wait, i think im a bit confused... running short arms or long arms, it shouldnt be causing much stress differernce at the upper shock mount because the shock can pivit. Unless there was some unwanted binding going on like maybe the shock is getting pressed against the frame or something....right?

The OE shock tower mainly just holds the weight of the vehicle and IF the bracket wasnt built strong enough then i could understand the cracking
The shock towers must be removed to put ORE's Coilovers on.

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post #23 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MR LIKA View Post
The shock towers must be removed to put ORE's Coilovers on.
i understand that. cut off factory coil bucket and weld in new OE brackets designed for coilover shocks.



I maybe wrong...
New OE brackets with King coilover now supports the weight of the vehicle. The upper shock mount uses a uni-ball to allow the whole coilover to pivit around when the suspension flexs but somehow the OE shock mount bracket is cracked.

so i think...
1. Bump stop wasnt adjusted correctly and the shocks took some hardcore bottoming outs which would place a lot of stress on the mounts.
2. OE bracket wasnt built strong enough to handle the weight of the vehicle or weak welds.
3. Shock body binded up against the frame but this would of caused damage to the shocks and coils... maybe the short arms with its tighter flex radius is pulling the shocks into the frame??? If so, yes, it might be a design flaw but OP never mentioned about any other damage to the suspension other then the mount.
4. Shocks are over extending. need limiting straps


Last edited by Chris85xlt; 10-12-2009 at 01:15 PM.
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post #24 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 01:18 PM
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He lives in La Quinta, if it were me i would call Mel on the phone make an appt and drive the 100 miles to show him and get Mels opinion. at least if there is a problem Mel has the opportunity to repair it but at the same time see what caused it and how to keep it from happensing again/to someone else.

As a vendor/manufacturer it is what i would want. my .02cents
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post #25 of 64 Old 10-12-2009, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris85xlt View Post
maybe the short arms with its tighter flex radius is pulling the shocks into the frame???
The short arms won't effect the position of the axle side to side, that is controlled by the track bar, the short arms would only effect the position of the axle front/rear, and I can't see anyway that this would cause any additional stress on the shock tower.


Quote:
4. Shocks are over extending. need limiting straps
Good point. If he's using 12" travel coilovers with only 3.5 of lift he may need limiting straps, but I still don't see this causing the issue.
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