"2016 Jeep Wrangler May Ditch Solid Axles" - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 44 Old 10-28-2013, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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"2016 Jeep Wrangler May Ditch Solid Axles"

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...lid-axles.html

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post #2 of 44 Old 10-29-2013, 07:18 AM
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Whatever, 10min after it hits the market someone will have a solid axle long arm kit for it anyway.

If it has a diesel option that will be cheaper than buying a solid axle jeep for a diesel swap.

I think this thing is finally coming together. Still Needed: drive shafts, frame mount rails...then done son! For a while...
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post #3 of 44 Old 10-29-2013, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaybee1669 View Post
Whatever, 10min after it hits the market someone will have a solid axle long arm kit for it anyway.

If it has a diesel option that will be cheaper than buying a solid axle jeep for a diesel swap.

That swap will probably make it 6" higher than stock as it is just to get reasonable clearance. Like most SAS. Glad you have high hopes for it, but I think my JK will be worth more here pretty soon.

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post #4 of 44 Old 10-29-2013, 08:57 AM
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Wasnt the next model delayed until 2018?


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post #5 of 44 Old 10-29-2013, 09:16 AM
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sad news... Let's see what they REALLY do...

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post #6 of 44 Old 10-29-2013, 09:38 AM
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If they do this the Wrangler will just be going the same way as the FJ Cruiser.

There will still be aftermarket support, but the rigs will be less capable and more expensive.

The old Jeepers not liking the new Jeepers will finally be justified.


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post #7 of 44 Old 10-30-2013, 03:07 PM
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And what's driving this? The freaking Government with its stupid ass CAFE standards. And who jacked those standards up unrealistically whe he became POTUS? Anyone? Bueller?

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post #8 of 44 Old 10-30-2013, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post
Wasnt the next model delayed until 2018?
Maybe this is a stunt to sell more Jk's because the IFS JK is not set to come out until MY2018

Jason

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post #9 of 44 Old 10-30-2013, 04:49 PM
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Watch it flex better lol!


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post #10 of 44 Old 10-31-2013, 12:39 AM
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post #11 of 44 Old 11-02-2013, 06:49 PM
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Well, if the Wrangler goes IFS, it looks like I'll be holding on to my 2012 for a VERY long time. There's no way in hell I'd buy a Wrangler with an IFS.

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post #12 of 44 Old 11-02-2013, 07:31 PM
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At this point who gives a fuck what they do. Making the downshift in quality changes from 2006 to 2007 as they did should be enough to prove that the quality of the jeep will drop yet again to compensate for all the r&d money they must be spending to design it.

Even the inclusion of a V8 or a diesel at that point will be moot in my opinion. Yes the aftermarket industry will see more opportunity but then so will Chrysler. From what I understand they are working on numerous upgrades to offer in house. I believe from a marketing standpoint they are looking to lure unsuspecting buyers into their lair of deceit even further. From racing to wheeling, they are currently in development of numerous products specifically for their new wranglers.

I for one will not be buying anything newer than what I have now. Good news is that what we currently own may in fact increase in value with any luck. Unfortunately since common sense building principles seem to elude them I just can't imagine that there will be structural, mechanical or smart streamlining designs of any sort implemented. Good news is that the go fast groups will probably wind up wrapping these fuckers around so many trees, medians and other such obstacles that the new power trains might see their way into older models. Bad news again is that they will probably end up changing the frames so much that we won't be able to use them anyway.

Should be an interesting venture to watch unfold.

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Originally Posted by van7559
I can bury my pinky in the rear, and just barley feel it, the front is a little easier, but still seems low to me!

I fist fuck life with a nuclear powered pneumatic fuck hammer for 60, 70 hrs a week...
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post #13 of 44 Old 11-02-2013, 10:15 PM
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At this point who gives a fuck what they do. Making the downshift in quality changes from 2006 to 2007 as they did should be enough to prove that the quality of the jeep will drop yet again to compensate for all the r&d money they must be spending to design it.

Even the inclusion of a V8 or a diesel at that point will be moot in my opinion. Yes the aftermarket industry will see more opportunity but then so will Chrysler. From what I understand they are working on numerous upgrades to offer in house. I believe from a marketing standpoint they are looking to lure unsuspecting buyers into their lair of deceit even further. From racing to wheeling, they are currently in development of numerous products specifically for their new wranglers.

I for one will not be buying anything newer than what I have now. Good news is that what we currently own may in fact increase in value with any luck. Unfortunately since common sense building principles seem to elude them I just can't imagine that there will be structural, mechanical or smart streamlining designs of any sort implemented. Good news is that the go fast groups will probably wind up wrapping these fuckers around so many trees, medians and other such obstacles that the new power trains might see their way into older models. Bad news again is that they will probably end up changing the frames so much that we won't be able to use them anyway.

Should be an interesting venture to watch unfold.

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So what are the "downshifts in quality" you speak of, because I've never seen a TJ do anything a JK couldn't, all the while being reliable while doing it.

- Dan

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post #14 of 44 Old 11-03-2013, 06:49 AM
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I think it makes sense and could be a very capable wheeler. Solid axles are cheap and rugged, and old proven technology. It's only because they've been used on the largest aftermarket platform on the planet, that they've been made as good as they are today. With hundred of suspension options, and millions of aftermarket r&d, you're left with really good products. Look at a stock 1998 vs a stock 2014-same basic suspension tech, but a world of difference. That's due to the biggest vehicle aftermarket on the plant along with Chrysler learning from that and doing their own research.

IFS would be a new world that's never been done before on this scale. People say that it would go the way of the FJ but I don't think that's the case. FJ owners don't wheel or modify. That's not their market, and that's proven by their lack of aftermarket. Have you looked at lifts for those vehicles? With only a handful on the market, that shows that their isn't much market for it, which means very little r&d has happened, which leads to very little innovation.

If jeep actually does this, they'll sell more, and I don't that RK, poly and other big names will be like "well, jeep just released a new wrangler that will sell more units than the current model, time to quit creating products, lets close up shop."

Still not convinced? Remember when the 4 door came out? Blasphemy! Soccer mom mobile, too big, not worth wheeling, not a real jeep, all of the above. But what happened? they sold more because they were amenable to daily kid duties, more flexible in every day life and the aftermarket grew with it. Now, some would argue that they can be built to create the best rigs out there. Even the old school wheelers have built 4 doors because they too can benefit from the advantages of a 4 door.

I still can't believe they went to coil springs. Leafs were the answer. ABS too?! Insanity. Power windows and door locks? It's not even a jeep anymore. But most of us love all of the above and are happy they came along. You don't see many JK owners swapping out their unlimiteds for built YJs, or even CJs.

I say bring on the IFS. I'd love to see what the Jeep aftermarket can come up with. I think we'd all be pleasantly surprised.

Worst case scenario, we'll still have our SA jeeps and all the SA tech to fall back on...


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post #15 of 44 Old 11-03-2013, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by van7559
I can bury my pinky in the rear, and just barley feel it, the front is a little easier, but still seems low to me!

I fist fuck life with a nuclear powered pneumatic fuck hammer for 60, 70 hrs a week...
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post #16 of 44 Old 11-03-2013, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Con Artist View Post
So what are the "downshifts in quality" you speak of, because I've never seen a TJ do anything a JK couldn't, all the while being reliable while doing it.
If they aren't obvious to you then go park next to an 06 or older and start comparing things like the quality and thickness of the body metal, the quality of mounts, etc..

Overall starting in 07, jeep cut way back on initial quality, raised the prices and started really turning out jeeps that are super flimsy tin cans. When I showed a buddy of mine the foam sprayed in the body cavities he about shit himself. His 06 sounds solid as hell when you wrap on the quarter panels, fenders, etc.. Tap ours and you might dent it in making a comparison. lol

The extra wheelbase of a JK Unlimited should make that much of a difference as far as strength goes along the lower tub. Even with the 06 LJ's and older Unlimited you could attach sliders and wheel the shit out of the rig without that much worry. You just need to install the sliders properly. Try doing that with an 07 and up....yeah, riiiiggghhhttt. Tub damage galore. Not because of length, but because of cheap ass build quality. That's really the point I'm getting at.

I'm not saying they aren't capable. Off the dealer floor stock they are still capable vehicles. But with each passing year they become much less capable than the previous year and it seems that the typical manufacturers trends are toward higher prices and lesser quality vehicles. Can't argue with that.

Now I realize that the IFS design will open up an entirely new venue for jeep but will it be as capable a rig as the tried and true solid axle rigs? I think not. Obviously time will tell how far the aftermarket community will take this and rest assured it will be entirely up to the after market community to make the jeep successful. If you think Chrysler itself will make the new IFS rigs up to snuff with Baja 1000 rigs then you got another thing coming. Hell even today you can't really wheel a stock rig very hard before everything starts falling apart or breaking due to poor design and poor quality parts.

Oh well, change is inevitable and thanks to our gubment digging deeper and deeper into our lives, even our jeeps are gonna suck eventually...

Originally Posted by van7559
I can bury my pinky in the rear, and just barley feel it, the front is a little easier, but still seems low to me!

I fist fuck life with a nuclear powered pneumatic fuck hammer for 60, 70 hrs a week...
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post #17 of 44 Old 11-03-2013, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M's View Post
If they aren't obvious to you then go park next to an 06 or older and start comparing things like the quality and thickness of the body metal, the quality of mounts, etc..

Overall starting in 07, jeep cut way back on initial quality, raised the prices and started really turning out jeeps that are super flimsy tin cans. When I showed a buddy of mine the foam sprayed in the body cavities he about shit himself. His 06 sounds solid as hell when you wrap on the quarter panels, fenders, etc.. Tap ours and you might dent it in making a comparison. lol

The extra wheelbase of a JK Unlimited should make that much of a difference as far as strength goes along the lower tub. Even with the 06 LJ's and older Unlimited you could attach sliders and wheel the shit out of the rig without that much worry. You just need to install the sliders properly. Try doing that with an 07 and up....yeah, riiiiggghhhttt. Tub damage galore. Not because of length, but because of cheap ass build quality. That's really the point I'm getting at.

I'm not saying they aren't capable. Off the dealer floor stock they are still capable vehicles. But with each passing year they become much less capable than the previous year and it seems that the typical manufacturers trends are toward higher prices and lesser quality vehicles. Can't argue with that.

Now I realize that the IFS design will open up an entirely new venue for jeep but will it be as capable a rig as the tried and true solid axle rigs? I think not. Obviously time will tell how far the aftermarket community will take this and rest assured it will be entirely up to the after market community to make the jeep successful. If you think Chrysler itself will make the new IFS rigs up to snuff with Baja 1000 rigs then you got another thing coming. Hell even today you can't really wheel a stock rig very hard before everything starts falling apart or breaking due to poor design and poor quality parts.

Oh well, change is inevitable and thanks to our gubment digging deeper and deeper into our lives, even our jeeps are gonna suck eventually...
Yes, the TJ is just built so much better than the JK, JKs are made of tin foil.

JKs are the most capable Jeeps made, and that's fact, not opinion. With every model year and generation, things are learned and improved upon for the next generation.

As for metals, this is my first Jeep, but my doors don't sound like tin cans when I close them. Is the metal thin? Yes, the metal is thin, but couldn't that be for weight savings? I can't ever think of a time where the body panels were just "flexing in the breeze." Body panels really aren't safety features anyway, they basically just cover up everything underneath. How thick or thin the metal is doesn't really matter, it's what's underneath that matters.

Years ago my cousin owned a TJ. That thing was the biggest rattle-trap I'd ever been in, and because of that, I swore I'd NEVER own a Jeep. My '12 doesn't feel like a rattle-trap and certainly doesn't sound like one. The foam sprayed in body cavities doesn't equate to cheap, it's additional insulation and sound deadening. I'd like to know where this "foam" is sprayed, because I'd most certainly like to observe for myself.

Here's a scary story. I have a '94 Camaro and years ago I noticed the doorskin at the doorjam/window was peeling. Come to find out, the skin came UNGLUED from the door! Yes, my door panel was physically PEELING off! Now, THAT was scary. Nothing like having a vehicle that's literally peeling apart!

Everything being said, I wouldn't mine picking up a TJ as a project, but as far as the overall experience between my cousin's TJ and my JK, I certainly wouldn't get rid of my JK for a TJ.

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post #18 of 44 Old 11-03-2013, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Con Artist View Post
I'd like to know where this "foam" is sprayed, because I'd most certainly like to observe for myself.
Well if you get into any sort of mods on your rig you will find foam in the body panels all over the place. The rear quarter panels are full of it as is the lower tub. You should be able to pull your rear tail lights and look in to see the foam.

Honestly, if you don't wheel your rig much it will hold up fairly well. If you wheel your rig even a little and especially with a harsh ride, it will start to rattle apart pretty quickly and if you wheel your rig really hard, even with a soft riding lift it's gonna start moaning and groaning and rattling all over the place, primarily in the dash areas. Just the nature of the beast.

Originally Posted by van7559
I can bury my pinky in the rear, and just barley feel it, the front is a little easier, but still seems low to me!

I fist fuck life with a nuclear powered pneumatic fuck hammer for 60, 70 hrs a week...
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post #19 of 44 Old 11-03-2013, 09:47 AM
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I thought all Jeeps rattled at some point or another....at least the three I have owned have.
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post #20 of 44 Old 11-03-2013, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M's View Post
If they aren't obvious to you then go park next to an 06 or older and start comparing things like the quality and thickness of the body metal, the quality of mounts, etc..

Overall starting in 07, jeep cut way back on initial quality, raised the prices and started really turning out jeeps that are super flimsy tin cans. When I showed a buddy of mine the foam sprayed in the body cavities he about shit himself. His 06 sounds solid as hell when you wrap on the quarter panels, fenders, etc.. Tap ours and you might dent it in making a comparison. lol

The extra wheelbase of a JK Unlimited should make that much of a difference as far as strength goes along the lower tub. Even with the 06 LJ's and older Unlimited you could attach sliders and wheel the shit out of the rig without that much worry. You just need to install the sliders properly. Try doing that with an 07 and up....yeah, riiiiggghhhttt. Tub damage galore. Not because of length, but because of cheap ass build quality. That's really the point I'm getting at.

I'm not saying they aren't capable. Off the dealer floor stock they are still capable vehicles. But with each passing year they become much less capable than the previous year and it seems that the typical manufacturers trends are toward higher prices and lesser quality vehicles. Can't argue with that.

Now I realize that the IFS design will open up an entirely new venue for jeep but will it be as capable a rig as the tried and true solid axle rigs? I think not. Obviously time will tell how far the aftermarket community will take this and rest assured it will be entirely up to the after market community to make the jeep successful. If you think Chrysler itself will make the new IFS rigs up to snuff with Baja 1000 rigs then you got another thing coming. Hell even today you can't really wheel a stock rig very hard before everything starts falling apart or breaking due to poor design and poor quality parts.

Oh well, change is inevitable and thanks to our gubment digging deeper and deeper into our lives, even our jeeps are gonna suck eventually...
Some people don't like change.

My JK stock is better than my CJ or YJ ever were even after a lot of mods. Plus the AC and defroster works.

Anyone else have a YJ where the floor crinkled and popped when you step on it?

How about the crack that develops on the inner door just under the wing window on every CJ/YJ full hard door ever?

My JK doesn't fling fluid out the rear of the TC like my YJ did with its 11.25" long ds and slip joint.

My front unit bearings don't need stub shafts to stay together like the old ones. A mod made on purpose to allow for trail damage.

I have never been tempted to put a Weber carb on my JK for better performance.

No dents in my plastic fenders yet.

Plus the JK is nice enough to get my wife to DD it. Without that I wouldn't have room for a Jeep in the fleet.

So next time you log onto AOL and read this post, use your rotary phone to call your buddy and if he is done fixing his carb he can give you a ride to the post office to pick up the VHS of Road Warrior you ordered. Don't forget to put a big log on so your mud hut is still warm when you get back. Hopefully it's before dark because your sealed beams are kinda dim, and there are no reflectors on the wagon trail you live near. Post office is so far away you may need to stop for gas because at 7 MPG 12 gallons only gets you so far, you can use your abacus to figure it out exactly.

Yes, progress sucks.

Anybody know what a luddite is?


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post #21 of 44 Old 11-03-2013, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by M&M's View Post
Well if you get into any sort of mods on your rig you will find foam in the body panels all over the place. The rear quarter panels are full of it as is the lower tub. You should be able to pull your rear tail lights and look in to see the foam.

Honestly, if you don't wheel your rig much it will hold up fairly well. If you wheel your rig even a little and especially with a harsh ride, it will start to rattle apart pretty quickly and if you wheel your rig really hard, even with a soft riding lift it's gonna start moaning and groaning and rattling all over the place, primarily in the dash areas. Just the nature of the beast.
Are you sure it's not just additional rust-proofing and sound-deadening? I'm not trying to make excuses for Chrysler, but I have a good feeling these materials are there for good reason. If there's foam inside the lighting housing, the odds are it's some sort of waterproofing, KNOWING people are gonna go out and wheel hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wubicon View Post
Some people don't like change.

My JK stock is better than my CJ or YJ ever were even after a lot of mods. Plus the AC and defroster works.

Anyone else have a YJ where the floor crinkled and popped when you step on it?

How about the crack that develops on the inner door just under the wing window on every CJ/YJ full hard door ever?

My JK doesn't fling fluid out the rear of the TC like my YJ did with its 11.25" long ds and slip joint.

My front unit bearings don't need stub shafts to stay together like the old ones. A mod made on purpose to allow for trail damage.

I have never been tempted to put a Weber carb on my JK for better performance.

No dents in my plastic fenders yet.

Plus the JK is nice enough to get my wife to DD it. Without that I wouldn't have room for a Jeep in the fleet.

So next time you log onto AOL and read this post, use your rotary phone to call your buddy and if he is done fixing his carb he can give you a ride to the post office to pick up the VHS of Road Warrior you ordered. Don't forget to put a big log on so your mud hut is still warm when you get back. Hopefully it's before dark because your sealed beams are kinda dim, and there are no reflectors on the wagon trail you live near. Post office is so far away you may need to stop for gas because at 7 MPG 12 gallons only gets you so far, you can use your abacus to figure it out exactly.

Yes, progress sucks.

Anybody know what a luddite is?


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I've never owned a Jeep aside from my JK, so I can't really base an opinion on previous generations, other than the experience I had in my cousin's Jeep, which was really nothing more than a "ride in a Jeep."

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfisher View Post
I thought all Jeeps rattled at some point or another....at least the three I have owned have.
Mine has a strange "tinging" sound behind the dash from time to time, but as far as actual rattles, I haven't noticed any yet. I'm sure they will crop up, but as of right now, all is well. That being said, I haven't exactly wheeled the shit out of it, either.

All in all, I think Fiat ownership is a double-edged sword. On one side, there are the enthusiasts, and of course, on the other, there are the bean-counters. Maybe I'm wrong, but in Italy, off-roading isn't real popular; not like F1 and Rally, anyway. An Italian group of bean-counters simply aren't gonna "get it" when it comes to solid axle performance versus IFS performance, and the odds are they probably aren't gonna take the time to learn, either. It would really have to be explained to them in great detail as to why sticking with a solid axle suspension for the Wrangler is the best option; it's gonna need to be justified in a big way.

I think it's great Fiat is investing money into Chrysler and the improvements are very obvious, but with improvements also comes a level of, "change everything." Once that mindset is in place, things that aren't "broken" get "fixed." I think the only way the Wrangler will succeed with a solid axle suspension is if the bean-counters are able to experience both, a solid axle suspension and a IFS off-road in serious off-road conditions. The bean-counters are going to have to spend some time with the "passionate Jeepers" to really get a feel for who their customer base are and what they do with their rigs.

- Dan

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post #22 of 44 Old 11-03-2013, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by M&M's View Post
At this point who gives a fuck what they do.
Hillary concurs.
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08 Rubi Unlimited named Freebird

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Cat killing would almost certainly decline if we were allowed to hunt liberals.
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post #23 of 44 Old 11-03-2013, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Wubicon View Post
Some people don't like change.
HaHa, yup, that be me!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wubicon View Post
Anybody know what a luddite is?
HaHa, yup, that be me again!!! Just leave well enough alone fuckers...lol

You need only ask some of the local yocals around here just how much I hate change and technology. If there was a target for technology shitting on somebody it would be on my fucking head.

And just for the record, I personally rather enjoy getting up in the morning, graining up the ole mule, rigging up the wagon for the morning jaunt into the fields then stopping by the neighbors place, you know, the Van Gooden's, to wind up their new newfangled phone whatchamacallit thingy so's I can call you up to tell you to go fuck yousef And the best part of all of this is that I crack myself up so much I don't need you to enjoy life. Of course some of the things that get put on here get taken out of context because my girlfriend (who's actually my sisters daughter) doesn't always put down exactly what I say and it sometimes gets mistaken or taken the wrong way so please forgive any misunderstandings...

Originally Posted by van7559
I can bury my pinky in the rear, and just barley feel it, the front is a little easier, but still seems low to me!

I fist fuck life with a nuclear powered pneumatic fuck hammer for 60, 70 hrs a week...
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post #24 of 44 Old 11-03-2013, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RubiCajun View Post
Hillary concurs.
There ya go. If Hillary says so then you know its gotta be true!

Originally Posted by van7559
I can bury my pinky in the rear, and just barley feel it, the front is a little easier, but still seems low to me!

I fist fuck life with a nuclear powered pneumatic fuck hammer for 60, 70 hrs a week...
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post #25 of 44 Old 11-03-2013, 01:25 PM
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I don't mind technology or change as long as it doesn't affect the positives of something.

Do I like the idea that the next Wrangler may have an IFS? HELL, NO, and it would take A LOT of convincing for me to "buy it," not only in terms of buying the vehicle but buying the claims Chrysler will make; "The Wrangler is just as capable," or "The Wrangler is more capable than ever!" I'm gonna wanna see solid proof. Hummer H2s, H3s, Nissan xTerras, Toyota 4Runners, Tacomas, and FJs are laughable jokes. I don't see the Wrangler being much more if an IFS winds up under it.

- Dan

1994 Chevrolet B4C Camaro
2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon
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