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post #1 of 83 Old 08-03-2013, 03:48 AM Thread Starter
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Thumbs down What is up with Poison Spyder?

I was part of a big order placed by <LOCAL_VENDOR> (good folks) for PSC stuff. This was their buy-in order to become a dealer. I ordered the following for an LJ:
rear corners with flares
front panels with flares
sliders (rocker knockers)
front bfh
rear bhf
steering box skid
full cage

The first piece I wanted to put on was the front bumper. BZZZZ. Turns out they sent me a JK bumper. Ok, nobody is perfect. Got a replacement bumper and sent the JK one back (shipped on their dime, kudos there). Replacement came in, proper scallop cuts on the sides, eyeballed it, looked good. So I painted the bumper up. Paint is cured so I went to install last night. No go. Looks like they actually sent me a YJ bumper. Now I am just hoping the other parts are not as fubar.

Some of the folks I wheel with also ordered stuff. Turns out there are some issues with the JK cages. The two folks that are doing their cage installs have reported issues with the bolt threading. One is at 27 drill bits removing stripped bolts due to the threading being off.

Is something amiss with PSC? Has their QC fallen that much? I really like the look and design (high shackle mounts, good lines) of their product but if this is any example of their QC then I will pass and recommend folks NOT purchase their stuff from here out. Hell, my replacement bumper didn't come with any swag to appease my frustration with their mistake. I really hope the second one does. The only other PSC item I had before are the 50" light bar mounts. Those fit without issue but were purchased last year.

I have jeeps. I do shit to them.

Last edited by bgall; 08-03-2013 at 04:08 AM.
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post #2 of 83 Old 08-03-2013, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgall View Post
I was part of a big order placed by <LOCAL_VENDOR> (good folks) for PSC stuff. This was their buy-in order to become a dealer. I ordered the following for an LJ:
rear corners with flares
front panels with flares
sliders (rocker knockers)
front bfh
rear bhf
steering box skid
full cage

The first piece I wanted to put on was the front bumper. BZZZZ. Turns out they sent me a JK bumper. Ok, nobody is perfect. Got a replacement bumper and sent the JK one back (shipped on their dime, kudos there). Replacement came in, proper scallop cuts on the sides, eyeballed it, looked good. So I painted the bumper up. Paint is cured so I went to install last night. No go. Looks like they actually sent me a YJ bumper. Now I am just hoping the other parts are not as fubar.

Some of the folks I wheel with also ordered stuff. Turns out there are some issues with the JK cages. The two folks that are doing their cage installs have reported issues with the bolt threading. One is at 27 drill bits removing stripped bolts due to the threading being off.

Is something amiss with PSC? Has their QC fallen that much? I really like the look and design (high shackle mounts, good lines) of their product but if this is any example of their QC then I will pass and recommend folks NOT purchase their stuff from here out. Hell, my replacement bumper didn't come with any swag to appease my frustration with their mistake. I really hope the second one does. The only other PSC item I had before are the 50" light bar mounts. Those fit without issue but were purchased last year.
Pffft, fitment of product? Correct product? First world problems! Never a good sign when this kind of stuff happens.

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post #3 of 83 Old 08-03-2013, 07:35 AM Thread Starter
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I test fit the rear bumper and it actually fits!

I have jeeps. I do shit to them.
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post #4 of 83 Old 08-03-2013, 10:57 AM
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Now you're batting .500!

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post #5 of 83 Old 08-03-2013, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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I have believe they will get me the right bumper... eventually.

I have jeeps. I do shit to them.
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post #6 of 83 Old 08-03-2013, 11:43 AM
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Not making any excuses for them but every part I have bought from them had instructions that said test fit before painting. That would have saved you the painting headache.

Never fun to receive the wrong product, that's for sure.

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post #7 of 83 Old 08-03-2013, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Agreed on the test fit. That was all on me. Even says to do it in their instructions. I just tried to get stuff painted when it was dry enough. We have had rain nearly every day the last 2 months.

I have jeeps. I do shit to them.
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post #8 of 83 Old 08-03-2013, 01:39 PM
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Are they going to let you send it back now that it has been painted??

Need advice or parts without all the bs. Call Marcus at River City Offroad
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post #9 of 83 Old 08-03-2013, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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I would assume so. It is just rattle can. Considering that they sent the wrong bumper they damn well better.

I have jeeps. I do shit to them.
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post #10 of 83 Old 08-03-2013, 02:45 PM
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Haven't heard many things good these days, nor has the experience with locals that are friends of mine been very good either. As far as the cage, well I suppose not much is new there.

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post #11 of 83 Old 08-03-2013, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodysgotacuda View Post
Haven't heard many things good these days, nor has the experience with locals that are friends of mine been very good either. As far as the cage, well I suppose not much is new there.
I have been trying to install the cage for the past couple days. Are you kidding me!!!. Whoever machined 24 pitch threads this poorly should be fired. Their is absolutely no effing point in that. I galled one bolt in so bad, their is no way it is coming out, so the cage is not coming out. Im going to just end up welding it in. Is that "hard core" enough for them. And that stupid piece of shit template. Their is no fucking way anyone can get that drilled perfectly. You drill off by 1mm and the rest of the cage aint going to fit right. I tapped the rest of the holes and they are full of slag and just piss poor machining. I would rather install gears with my eyes closed and with one hand that install another one of these cages. Its time to put a crease in that flat bill and get back to quality work.
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post #12 of 83 Old 08-03-2013, 06:12 PM
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If only someone had tried to tell them what was wrong with it, they could have fixed it.

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post #13 of 83 Old 08-03-2013, 06:27 PM
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post #14 of 83 Old 08-04-2013, 09:55 AM
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I bought some of their rocker guards a couple years back. It looked like it was packed by a 3rd grader & I don't know how it even made it here. The hardware didn't make it - the 'box" (term used lightly) was coming apart & the guards were flopping around inside. Yes, all 100+ pounds of them. Of course, the rockers were unfinished - I knew that going in. But they beat the box to shreds. Marcus got me new hardware, but I was so soured by the total lack of quality & pride in their product, I sold them & bought some from Nemesis.

The Nemesis ones arrived wrapped in plastic encased in foam, tightly packed in a segmented box, and the box was wrapped in those nylon straps. The pride in workmanship was completely different & it showed. It also showed in their price too, but you get what you pay for.

I also checked out a couple of friend's bumpers. Sure, the design was cool, but in all honesty, the quality of the welds & fitment wasn't anything to write home about. Nothing like my Gen-Right bumpers. IMHO, PSC is in a different league, and it's not a great one. But, they have a popular name & cool designs & sell a lot of stuff, so my opinion is in the minority - I'm OK with that.

I've since heard their quality & packaging improved & decided to give them another shot. I bought their aluminum fenders, front & rear. I'm in the middle of installing them right now. Their fender design, IMHO, is superior due to the inner fender bracing. Their quality, however still isn't up to the standards of folks like Nemesis & Gen-right though. Still had weld slag in some places, all the brackets had burrs on them, the right side didn't match the left side (slight variation). The finish - although bare - looked *nothing* like the bare Aluminum Gen-right bumpers I have. Those are clean enough to leave bare (on my dark blue JK) while the PSC flares aren't. There's still some discoloration around the welds (from flux? not sure what), and the surface is sandblasted into a very rough finish, the facets of which glisten & reflect the sun - waaaay too bright. "Bare Aluminum" is not "bare aluminum" everywhere you go.

However, their packing & shipping have improved dramatically. They were packed just like the Nemesis rockers were, all nice & tight & safe. Good job there.

So while I like their designs, their quality of build gets them a C+ in my book, maybe B- at best. At least now I'm confident they'll arrive safely. And I did get the correct ones.

Just my opinion from my personal observations - your mileage may vary.

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PR44/RCV/Reid Front - Superior Rear - ORF Front / Poly Rear Cage - ORF Tire Carrier
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post #15 of 83 Old 08-04-2013, 10:38 AM
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Guess I'm lucky, my JKU cage and Crusher Corners fit fine..

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post #16 of 83 Old 08-04-2013, 01:36 PM
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This is what scares me. Stuff that's hit and miss. My psc mid brawler bumper, fairlead mount, and hawse, arrived packed to the point I had to cut eth foam away from the bumper after tearing the box apart to get to the bumper. I ordered this stuff back in January (bumper) and in May (the rest of the stuff). I was impressed and decided at that point I wanted to get the rest of their products for my Jeep.

I want their brawler rockers rear brawler tire carrier bumper and their fenders. This stuff concerns me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeep2.0 View Post
I bought some of their rocker guards a couple years back. It looked like it was packed by a 3rd grader & I don't know how it even made it here. The hardware didn't make it - the 'box" (term used lightly) was coming apart & the guards were flopping around inside. Yes, all 100+ pounds of them. Of course, the rockers were unfinished - I knew that going in. But they beat the box to shreds. Marcus got me new hardware, but I was so soured by the total lack of quality & pride in their product, I sold them & bought some from Nemesis.

The Nemesis ones arrived wrapped in plastic encased in foam, tightly packed in a segmented box, and the box was wrapped in those nylon straps. The pride in workmanship was completely different & it showed. It also showed in their price too, but you get what you pay for.

I also checked out a couple of friend's bumpers. Sure, the design was cool, but in all honesty, the quality of the welds & fitment wasn't anything to write home about. Nothing like my Gen-Right bumpers. IMHO, PSC is in a different league, and it's not a great one. But, they have a popular name & cool designs & sell a lot of stuff, so my opinion is in the minority - I'm OK with that.

I've since heard their quality & packaging improved & decided to give them another shot. I bought their aluminum fenders, front & rear. I'm in the middle of installing them right now. Their fender design, IMHO, is superior due to the inner fender bracing. Their quality, however still isn't up to the standards of folks like Nemesis & Gen-right though. Still had weld slag in some places, all the brackets had burrs on them, the right side didn't match the left side (slight variation). The finish - although bare - looked *nothing* like the bare Aluminum Gen-right bumpers I have. Those are clean enough to leave bare (on my dark blue JK) while the PSC flares aren't. There's still some discoloration around the welds (from flux? not sure what), and the surface is sandblasted into a very rough finish, the facets of which glisten & reflect the sun - waaaay too bright. "Bare Aluminum" is not "bare aluminum" everywhere you go.

However, their packing & shipping have improved dramatically. They were packed just like the Nemesis rockers were, all nice & tight & safe. Good job there.

So while I like their designs, their quality of build gets them a C+ in my book, maybe B- at best. At least now I'm confident they'll arrive safely. And I did get the correct ones.

Just my opinion from my personal observations - your mileage may vary.
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post #17 of 83 Old 08-04-2013, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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My rocker knockers were packed well. Foamed on the ends. Hardware box in the space made by the Ls of each rocker knocker. Three heavy duty plastic straps holding the box closed. No complains on the packaging. Of course NOBODY packs like OR Fab. They take it too far. It takes a long time just to find your stuff in the solid block of foam. It would take a hurricane to damage the OR Fab stuff.

In other words, PSC seems to be packing stuff pretty well. A good balance of secure but not encased in a solid block.

I have jeeps. I do shit to them.

Last edited by bgall; 08-04-2013 at 01:52 PM.
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post #18 of 83 Old 08-04-2013, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgall View Post
My rocker knockers were packed well. Foamed on the ends. Hardware box in the space made by the Ls of each rocker knocker. Three heavy duty plastic straps holding the box closed. No complains on the packaging. Of course NOBODY packs like OR Fab. They take it too far. It takes a long time just to find your stuff in the solid block of foam. It would take a hurricane to damage the OR Fab stuff.
When did you buy your rockers?


And you're right - the OR-Fab cage I have & spare tire carrier took me a looong time to cut away all that foam. Advance adapters did the same on a bellhousing once - thought I was going to have to burn the part outta that foam!

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post #19 of 83 Old 08-04-2013, 03:32 PM
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Everything I have purchased from psc has fit fine. Front stinger bumper, rear bumper, and hood louver. My bud just picked up the new rear bumper and tire carrier. Everything was perfect. Installed easily and quickly. Front bumper arrived this week and got that on real quick with no issues. He did get the psc sliders and I don't like em. They bolt on to the rocker panels. Look weak and too many holes/bolts. My evo sliders are ten times better.
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post #20 of 83 Old 08-04-2013, 04:31 PM
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Here are some examples of the attention to detail on my PSC fenders. Nothing major, but the burrs & slag just say "I don't care about my product" to me. Kinda reminds me of when stuff first started getting made overseas.

Nothing too terribly major, but the slag is on the front tube right where you look when you're standing in the front of the Jeep. It just takes some extra prep work to really get it ready for paint. Personally, I'd fire anyone that made countersunk holes like this - it looks like they were made with a pocket knife! But again - just takes extra prep work on my end. Not what I expected for $1000 worth of fenders (all 4), but that's just my opinion. Clearly a lot of people have different ones. That's cool.

I don't mean to slam PSC - this is just my personal observation, experience, and opinion. They do have one of the coolest logos around.
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2011 5.3L GM LC9 Aluminum LS V8 Conversion w/ Custom Dyno Tune
Aluminum Genright Bumpers Front & Rear - Aluminum Nemesis Rockers
PR44/RCV/Reid Front - Superior Rear - ORF Front / Poly Rear Cage - ORF Tire Carrier
RK 3.5" Springs - Fox 2.0 Adjustable Shocks - JKS Arms & Trackbars - Poly Steering

Last edited by Jeep2.0; 08-04-2013 at 06:59 PM.
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post #21 of 83 Old 08-04-2013, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeep2.0 View Post
Here are some examples of the attention to detail on my PSC fenders. Nothing major, but the burrs & slag just say "I don't care about my product" to me. Kinda reminds me of when stuff first started getting made overseas.

Nothing too terribly major, but the slag is on the front tube right where you look when you're standing in the front of the Jeep. It just takes some extra prep work to really get it ready for paint. Personally, I'd fire anyone that made countersunk holes like this - it looks like they were made with a pocket knife! But again - just takes extra prep work on my end. Not what I expected for $1000 worth of fenders (all 4), but that's just my opinion. Clearly a lot of people have different ones. That's cool.

I don't mean to slam PSC - this is just my personal observation, experience, and opinion. They do have one of the coolest logos around.
I love my PSC flares, but hard to argue with what you posted. Maybe they got too big... too fast? Maybe Larry needs to refocus on manufacturing rather than racing.

I am surprised they have not responded.

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post #22 of 83 Old 08-04-2013, 11:54 PM
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I have looked at PSC many times in the past. I ended up going with JCR because the value to quality ratio stomps PSC into the dirt. Especially looking at the pictures just posted.

I remember a guy on here laying his BFH into something and ripping the bottom bolts out of his frame rails. Then Goody made those simple lap brackets to resolve the one bolt bottom mounting on the BFH. When that happened, PSC would have been a stand up company to offer a similar solution to anyone who was worried about the same failure. Nope, fucking crickets. After seeing that along with the idiotic front streamer template and tub bolt through on their cage, I decided that PSC would be a company I likely wouldn't spend any money with throughout my own build. I still have quite a bit of money to spend and will as time wears on, just not with them.

Have they made quality stuff in the past? Hell yeah! They still make the best corners out there. Are they focused on keeping current customers and making new ones? I don't personally get that feeling looking at the trend of their current quality and lack of response to real world feedback. I think the best companies are managed and operated by people who never stop caring what the customer thinks, regardless of how negative it may be or if you agree with it.

Asking for the right item and decent built quality is not high expectation. Hey, for the money they ask for some of their stuff, you shouldn't see any slag or burn marks. It should be flap disc perfection.

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post #23 of 83 Old 08-05-2013, 01:34 AM
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Yeah, when you have such status, QC should not be something to worry about. If something did slip between the cracks, taking care of the customer should be first priority, period.

I've had lots of experience with PSC and have spent a fair amount of time working with Larry on a couple items/issues I had with a particular product. It took a little communication and some persuasion but ultimately he and his crew stepped up to the plate and took very good care of me.

Couple of the issues did happen to be QC and packaging. I will say that after our incident they did start to clean things up quite a bit and that from what I've heard, packaging stepped up a notch too. However, I would venture to say that since some time has passed (about a year now), it's possible that things have loosened up a bit on QC and shipping.

My suggestion is to make a few phone calls, talk to Larry and Chad and let them know what's going on. I think all it takes now is just a touching of the bases to let these guys know that things are falling below acceptance levels. Chances are they are not aware of it until a few customers let them know. I realize the consumer shouldn't have to be the one to blow the whistle on it but it is how it seems to work.

Personally I have no doubt that they will take care of things once they see and read this thread. I'm willing to bet they will respond and address everyone's issues in one way or another.

Again, I base this only on the experience I have had with them. They really do seem to be stand up guys. I keep meaning to stop in and say hello to them when passing by their shop but it always seems like I am pushing to get somewhere else and I miss the opportunity.

Originally Posted by van7559
I can bury my pinky in the rear, and just barley feel it, the front is a little easier, but still seems low to me!

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post #24 of 83 Old 08-05-2013, 03:52 AM Thread Starter
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We will see what happens today.

I have jeeps. I do shit to them.
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post #25 of 83 Old 08-05-2013, 05:17 AM
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Are we able to place wagers?


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