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post #1 of 27 Old 01-18-2009, 01:57 PM Thread Starter
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The lightest mud-terrain tire-rim combo is...

What is the lightest tire rim combo running a moderate to aggressive tread pattern?

I need to keep the MPGs as high as possible while not setting myself up for constantly getting stuck due to lack of traction in the snow/mud/rocks. It's a daily driver that needs to be able to handle the ever present Pacific Northwest mud and moss covered trails, too.

My budget is very tight these years so the less expensive the better. I am not hung up on looks - only performance and cost.

Bonus - tires which are stamped as "traction control tires" so I don't have to use chains in the winter when heading up into the mountains.

Are there decent 35's which when combined with the right rim actually are lighter than stock?!?!?!
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post #2 of 27 Old 01-18-2009, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
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No one knows which is the lightest decent mud terrain tire?

No one knows which is the lightest wheel that can handle off-roading?
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post #3 of 27 Old 01-18-2009, 08:50 PM
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I have not heard this specific topic discussed before. Most the Jeep croud is not concerned with weight and probably don't even know the term unsprung weight


I would say the only place you are gonna find the answer is THIS WEBSITE


Sorry, but I think researching it yourself is going to be the answer.

I can tell you that most forged wheels are lighter then Steel wheels.

Interco makes some heavy ass tires

It appears the bigger the wheel the less your overall weight will be although I have not confirmed this. I can tell you that 15" steel wheels on 35's appear to be heavier then 37's on 17" forged wheels. But again, this is not confirmed. From what I have seen I would guess 2 inches on the wheel is lighter then 2 inches of tire

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post #4 of 27 Old 01-18-2009, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTF_LOL View Post
I have not heard this specific topic discussed before. Most the Jeep croud is not concerned with weight and probably don't even know the term unsprung weight


I would say the only place you are gonna find the answer is THIS WEBSITE


Sorry, but I think researching it yourself is going to be the answer.

I can tell you that most forged wheels are lighter then Steel wheels.

Interco makes some heavy ass tires

It appears the bigger the wheel the less your overall weight will be although I have not confirmed this. I can tell you that 15" steel wheels on 35's appear to be heavier then 37's on 17" forged wheels. But again, this is not confirmed. From what I have seen I would guess 2 inches on the wheel is lighter then 2 inches of tire
x2 you can hit the Mfg. websites and get the full specs on each item. I was looking at the same thing a while back; you will have to narrow the field a little more. BFG AT's are pretty light to 35", the old MT was comparable but is no longer made over 35" and the numbers are worse. Once you have the tire hit the Wheel MFG's that will put you to sleep. I spent a couple of days at it and gave up in the sea of information.

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post #5 of 27 Old 01-18-2009, 09:45 PM
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I agree that you'll probably have to do most of this research on your own. I doubt that you'll find a tire/rim combo that is lighter than stock with 35s because the stock alloy rims are pretty light.

You'll want to pay attention to wheel material when shopping for a wheel. There is steel, cast aluminum alloy, and forged aluminum alloy. Steel is heaviest but also cheapest. Generally steel rims will bend rather than crack on impact which is good off road, but some have complained that the modern steel wheels tend to be thinner than they used to be, resulting in more problems off-road. If you're on a budget and looking for something light and strong cast aluminum is a good way to go. Although they have more of a tendency to crack on impact offroad, very few people ever have an issue with a cast aluminum rim. You'll probably be able to find them a little lighter than the stock rims if you search around. Finally, forged aluminum rims are more expensive but they're also stronger than steel and cast aluminum (all else equal) and they also tend to bend rather than crack on impact. Some forged rims will be way lighter than the stock rims, but be careful to get one that is not too thin that it cannot handle large tires and off-road conditions.

As for tires, you'll have to search around, but I agree that in general Interco tires are on the heavy side. I have some Interco SSRs, however, and can say that they do well in the snow without chains. Other mud tires that I've heard are good in the snow are Firestone Destination MTs and Mickey Thompson MTZs. I'm not familiar with the "traction control tires" symbol, but you'll want to look for a mud tire with siped tread blocks for good snow traction. Let us know what you decide on!

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post #6 of 27 Old 01-18-2009, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cab76 View Post
...I'm not familiar with the "traction control tires" symbol, but you'll want to look for a mud tire with siped tread blocks for good snow traction. Let us know what you decide on!
I am pretty sure he is talking about the Snow rated symbol. This is what they are looking for on the tires at the passes


This is what the symbol looks like...


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post #7 of 27 Old 01-18-2009, 10:10 PM
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From the sounds of your comments I would recomend All terain tire.

Mud tires are nearly as bad as slicks on the passes.

I also used to live in Washington. Most the time guys did as good or better with All terains as it is often slippery roots or wet loose gravel you are on. For straight mud you will be at a disadvantage though with A/T's

In my opinion, the best tire for Washington is the Trxus. It is a very good at self cleaning (you can see the "steps" on each lug in the pic), it has built in siping, it floats on snow well without "digging", good sidewalls, Tread patterens are organized in a way wor good forard back traction as well is good sideways or cross tire traction for off camber situations, etc.

They can be cheaper then other tires.

They are lighter then other interco tires but still pretty heavy.

They don't appear to have the same issue of blowing out sidewalls on the freeway like other interco tires.


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post #8 of 27 Old 01-18-2009, 10:14 PM
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Just fill your tires with helium.. problem solved
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post #9 of 27 Old 01-18-2009, 10:30 PM
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BTW,

Thought this was interesting about the weight of these. Not sure what makes the 15" so much lighter

interco trxus

66 lbs for 15" 12.5x35
76 lbs for 16" 12.5x35
75 lbs for 17" 12.5x35
72 lbs for 18" 12.5x35

BFG KM's

64 lbs for 15" 12.5x35

BFG KM2's

63 lbs for 15" 12.5x35
68 lbs for 17" 12.5x35
67 lbs for 18" 12.5x35


I also noticed that you can run a 37" km2 for less weight then most 35" intercos

72 lbs 17" 37x12.5 km2

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post #10 of 27 Old 01-18-2009, 11:02 PM
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I've also heard nothing but good things about Interco Truxus in the snow. If I lived farther north I probably would have went with them instead of the SSRs. I've heard the KM2s are bad in the snow.

I'll second the AT tires comment - sounds like that would work well for you - an aggressive AT. But - it's a lot easier to get stuck in mud than wet roots and dirt, which is why I went with a mud tire, even though I won't need it often. So - if you can find a mud tire that is also decent in the snow - that would be the ideal tire IMHO.

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post #11 of 27 Old 01-18-2009, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cab76 View Post
I've heard the KM2s are bad in the snow.

.
I can vouce for that, I have the M/t KM's. I also have them sipped. Do.."OK" in deep snow, tends to dig if really deep, but on ice or packed snow they are useless. Doubt it is much different with the KM2's
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post #12 of 27 Old 01-19-2009, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cab76 View Post
I've also heard nothing but good things about Interco Truxus in the snow. If I lived farther north I probably would have went with them instead of the SSRs. I've heard the KM2s are bad in the snow.

I'll second the AT tires comment - sounds like that would work well for you - an aggressive AT. But - it's a lot easier to get stuck in mud than wet roots and dirt, which is why I went with a mud tire, even though I won't need it often. So - if you can find a mud tire that is also decent in the snow - that would be the ideal tire IMHO.
I have the KM2's and live in NW PA where we get a fair amount of snow and ice. I have to disargree that they are bad in the snow, they go great in deep snow, packed snow but do go terrible on slick icy roads. I accually was looking between the truxus MT and the KM2 and at least on the icy conditions that we have had here lately the truxus with the more siping is looking better. Im not sure but dont you have to have a certian type of tire (snow) or chains or cables no matter what type of tread. If you are looking for a a/t look at the procomp or bfg a/t stay away from half-breed tires (big name cheap tires coursor, sport king ect.) they wont get you anywhere. I have 32x11.5R15 KM2 on Crager soft 8 15X8 rims and they weigh about 77 lbs ea. and my milage went from 18.5 to 14.5 and stock was only 12 lbs lighter but the tread is a big factor too.

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post #13 of 27 Old 01-19-2009, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTF_LOL View Post
I have not heard this specific topic discussed before. Most the Jeep croud is not concerned with weight and probably don't even know the term unsprung weight


Funny. I wrote about it in an article over 8 years ago on RC.

Link to page 4, about half way down

....and the quote to save you the search.

Quote:
<snip>....Here is the second part that is not often considered in the off-road world. There is a distinct difference between the "Sprung" and "Un-sprung" mass of a vehicle. The sprung mass is simply everything held up by the suspension. While un-sprung mass is everything below. The vehicles' ability to move and control un-sprung mass is more difficult than it is to control sprung mass. (That is why the large part of the vehicle is above the springs.) The amount of effect depends on the particular vehicle.

A good general rule seems to be that each pound of un-sprung mass = 10 lbs of sprung mass. How does this affect our Jeep? Each one of my stock tires weighed 51 Lbs. Each one of the new tires weighs 68 Lbs. This means that my Jeep has to move, stop and turn with the effect of 680 more lbs. of weight on-board. ...
This was moving from 30s to 33s on a TJ at the time.

The wheels in question and the scale.





I would love to keep my JK as light as possible for on and off road use.

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post #14 of 27 Old 01-19-2009, 12:11 PM
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I think we shared similar view in another thread Cole. I fully agree.

Comes from racing. Even in the race sceen, unsprung weight is not undestood by everybody. I think it is one of the most overlooked aspects. They even did horsepower testing definetivley with ounce lighter wheels and picked up time in the quarter.

You will also notice that race cars, f1, etc have the minimum sprung weight possible.


Jeeps are the opposite of performance, I have not really ever understood why. I even fall into it myself. People put the largest heaviest tires on, bolt and weld steel all over the place and hit the trails. You can even see it. A rig trying to get up over something but it is on an incline and there just is not enough grip or power to get it up and over, if it does, it just slams down with a million pounds of force and breaks something, lol, so then, they build it up with more steel.

In my opinion, you would not have to build up some components if it is not so heavy. I picture in my mind, I rig that is as light weight as possible, having a much easier time on the same trail
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post #15 of 27 Old 01-19-2009, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTF_LOL View Post
I
You will also notice that race cars, f1, etc have the minimum sprung weight possible.

Hmmmm......inboard brakes

I would LOVE to see some more light stuff for the JK.

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post #16 of 27 Old 01-19-2009, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
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THanks for all the great posts and info...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WTF_LOL View Post
...Sorry, but I think researching it yourself is going to be the answer...
I didn't want to reinvent the wheel, so to speak, if I didn't need to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WTF_LOL View Post
This is what the symbol looks like...

Yep, that's it. The term is from the State regs... also on the ticket if you get busted not using them when your supposed to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WTF_LOL View Post
From the sounds of your comments I would recomend All terain tire.

Mud tires are nearly as bad as slicks on the passes...
That's the opposite of what I was hearing/reading. Which is why I was opting for the mud terrain tire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WTF_LOL View Post
...I also noticed that you can run a 37" km2 for less weight then most 35" intercos

72 lbs 17" 37x12.5 km2
I noticed that the Yokohama Geolandar M/T+ is even lighter! LT37X12.50R17 weighs in at 71.60 lbs. It looks great, too. Wonder if it performs well?!?!



Quote:
Originally Posted by green08jk View Post
...Im not sure but dont you have to have a certian type of tire (snow) or chains or cables no matter what type of tread. ...
Yes, which is why I want one with the mountain/snowflake symbol (shown above). I can't afford to tires for summer and another set for winter so I need one that can do all the seasons and off-roading. Thanks for the heads up on the wheels.

Seems to me that a lighter weight wheel/tire combo would make it easier on the brakes to bring you to a stop and also make it easier to get up the hill/dune/rock/etc...

Last edited by OutdoorDad; 01-19-2009 at 10:51 PM.
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post #17 of 27 Old 01-19-2009, 11:06 PM
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When I lived in washington I drove up the passes nearly every weekend in the winter.

FWIW

There was always chains required signs up. They always let me pass even though I did not have chains. MOst the time they would waive me by or say nothing. Sometimes the would stop me and ask me if I had chains and then still let me go. Never been not allowed to continue withut chains yet

Which is bass akwords considering how much worse the traction with my mudd tires where on ice then our 4 runner with A/T's (which they have stopped for not having chains, lol)


Also, the geolanders. I have heard they ride real quite and have a long tread life. I have also heard they were not the best offroad and terrible on the ice. I have never had them, that is just the feedback I have had on them
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post #18 of 27 Old 01-31-2009, 11:29 PM
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They don't appear to have the same issue of blowing out sidewalls on the freeway like other interco tires.
Never had that problem form swampers to Boggers, but it has hapopened. Fnin what is best for your most use and either get them siped or get a cheaper 16" winter set. I rock my other set in the summer, since that is the time I don't have to four-wheel, but people love the powder coated black wheels even if the jeep looks to scared to be down by them due to the lift. I switch my Mud tires off anytime I have a long hwy trip. Mine sound like a small eng, airplane and eat gas like it's a 460 big block. Just choose wisely. If I had to do it again I would get the TOYO Open Country MT's, Great on and off road, Good mileage and noise.
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post #19 of 27 Old 01-31-2009, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by liquidsmile View Post
Never had that problem form swampers to Boggers, but it has hapopened.

I have personnaly seen it happen a few times. It may not be a normal problem...it is certainly possible that the guys that that happened to were running around with too little pressure in thier tires. BUt, I have also read about it happening to others as well. HAve never heard of it with the Trxus though. JUst kinda got me a little scured to run INterco on a freeway driven vehicle myself
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post #20 of 27 Old 02-01-2009, 12:46 PM
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Im still studdying but TOYO's is winning so far !!! but have heard they are heavy
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post #21 of 27 Old 02-01-2009, 12:52 PM
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On previous vehicles I have had S Swamper SSR's --- terrible wouldn balnce and flat spotted terrible. Parnelli Jones Dirt Gripz they balance out pretty well ... I have them on my Suburban -- They wore a lil funny prol due to the vehicle weight. Now on my Yj they wore perfect !!
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post #22 of 27 Old 10-05-2010, 12:33 PM
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Bringing back an old thread so I can prove to you all that I searched!

Anyway, I plan on my next tires either being KM2s again or else the 37/12.5R15 Pit Bull Rockers. I know its like night and day, but anyway, I'd like to know what the lightest 15" wheel is that comes in a size of either 15x8 or 15x10. Pit Bull actually recommends the 10" width but I'ma little leary about running wheels that wide and popping beads.

Should I be looking for a 10" wheel, is there even such a thing as a 15x9 for the JK? And whats the lightest? Steel or alloy?

Lots of questions I know...

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post #23 of 27 Old 02-07-2013, 04:12 PM
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here is what I have found. Lightest tire by size and price...tirerack :)

lightest mud terrain tires 33inch 35 inch all on 15 inch rims
tire size weight price

goodyear wrangler duratrac 33X12.5R15LT 49 184
bfg mt km2 33X10.5R15LT 49 193
yokohama geolander mt+ 33X12.5R15LT 51 220
kumho road venture mt 33X12.5R15LT 57 210


bfg mt km2 *35X12.5R15LT 61 220
yokohama geolander mt+ 35X12.5R15LT 61 220
kumho road venture mt 35X12.5R15LT 67 250

interco trxus mt 33X12.50R15LT 63
34X12.50R15LT 64
35X12.50R15LT 66
37X12.50R15LT 72
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post #24 of 27 Old 02-07-2013, 08:54 PM
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wohoo! 2010 thread ftw!

As far as "light" goes, you lose durability. I'll take a hit on mpg for a more durable tire that won't leave me in a predicament on the trail.

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post #25 of 27 Old 02-07-2013, 08:57 PM
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Goodyear 35x17 weigh in at 64 lbs, I believe that's the lightest. Duratrac is 61 lbs in the same size.

Difference is all in the load rating. Load range E are 10-ply, and act like steel. Weight, strength, and stiffness. Load range C are 6-ply and much lighter, but I don't know about risking the lesser tire for some weight savings.

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