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Old 04-06-2013, 11:54 AM   #1
jkcowtown
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Burnsville Offroad Hemi conversions will not pass inspection

I have bought two VVT Hemi conversion from Dan at Burnsville off-road, neither one of them will pass state inspection. My jeep is currently set up with 392 VVT Hemi with a manual transmission.
I met Dan three years ago at Moab. He had Ensure me and a couple of his friends from Chrysler that he was the only one out there with the correct programming on manual transmissions with no problem. So I paid Dan $21,000 to do the 5.7VVT Hemi. He had my jeep for seven and half months to do this work. When I did get my jeep home the engine light was on. Dan told me not to worry about it that they were working on the problem would have it fixed shortly. A year and a half went by before they finally fixed the problem. To be fair to Burnsville off-road the conversion was a beautiful job. The jeep runs great I have no complaints there. Even though the engine light is off now, the jeep will not pass Inspection they are still programming issues. I was out hundreds of dollars going to the local dealership to have the program check ,which was not covered under warranty.
I have been working with Dan for almost 3 years now on this problem, he suggested last year at Moab that I go to the 6.4 VVT motor and that they wouldn't have any issues. So I pay Dan another $12,000 to change out the motor. Only to get it home and I still have the same programming issues. None of these problems are covered by Warranty at Chrysler and the only thing covered on the motors are parts only. Any labor costs will come out of your pocket. I'm sure Dan will warranty at his shop, but you have to drive several thousand miles across country to take it to him, will not pick it up.
I'm not here to put anybody down. Only what the truth told, I am out thousands of dollars on a jeep that won't pass inspection.
If I learned anything from this, is don't believe everything you read on the Internet, don't have work like this done a cross country and always have a contract agreement written up.
To update my ongoing jeep conversion, the 6.4 VVT motor was pulled out by Dan at Burnsville because it would not pass inspection(only 1200 miles). After talking with Dan we came to the agreement that he would put a brand new truck motor. You said he had one brand-new still in the crate in shop with automatic transmission and he would put this in the Jeep and that this would pass inspection, he guarenteed it. We agreed that he would put this motor and the transmission in and instead of giving me back my 12,000 on the 6.4 engine, he would put a pro rock 60 rear axle and manual locking hubs on my pro rock 44 front axle, and paint my fenders to match my jeep. I met his son half way in Kansas to bring the Jeep to him to get him to do the work the last week in October. I did not get my Jeep back until he brought the Jeep to me at Moab on March 23 (5 MONTHS HE KEPT MY JEEP). He delivered the Jeep to me, and half the work he promised had not been done. The motor and the transmission were USED NOT NEW, the transmission was a rebuilt one, there were no front locking hubs, he did put a pro rock rear 60 axle in, but the fenders had not been painted.

I do not know what to say about the situation other than after all this time had passed, all the troubles I had already had with him, and still he failed to do what we agreed upon AND PUT USED PARTS on my jeep. Dan has a tendency to remove parts from one customer jeep and move it to another. He took my Hutchinson Bead Lock wheels to use on someone else's Jeep, my Bead Locks were powder coated silver, now I have a pair that are powder coated black that have been PAINTED silver. All I can say is that this is not a man of his word, he is a theif, a part's switcher, and worst of all, the man is a liar. I've ended up spending 33,000 to have a used motor and a used rebuid transmission in my Jeep. I am not the only one having trouble with Dan at Burnsville. I have heard of two other Jeeps in Texas that I am aware of 6.4 VVT motors that will not pass inspection. There is a man on the east coast that asked Dan for a truck Hemi conversion only to end up with a car Hemi conversion. The man asked him why he didn't use a truck Hemi conversion in his truck and Dan's reply was that a truck conversion was not available, yet Dan did not tell the customer before, just did the car conversion to the jeep without the customer's consent.

These articles you read in magazines about how great Dan and Burnsville Offroad is are bought and bartered for by Dan. Phil Howell from Offroad Adventures is writing an article about how great his work is and in trade, Dan is building him a Jeep. The front bumper on Phil's Jeep came off of my Jeep, because Dan needed it for a photo shoot. I ended up with Howell's old bumper which was not anything like my original bumper. I don't know what you call this anywhere else, but in Texas, we call this stealing.
There was a gentleman that work for finance at Chrysler, He was a good friend of Dan's and his inside connection to Chrysler. I ended up with his old tires and wheels that Dan sold me at full retail. The next year when I want to Moab this gentleman had brand-new tires and wheels on his jeep and I had his old ones on my. I also ended up with a used Dana 60. I paid Dan $20,000 upfront before he even started to work on my jeep that was my first mistake and was in he shop for total of 14 month. 3 trips and 3 motors. I finally end up with a used motor and used transmission that passes inspection for only $33,000 not mentioned the other 12,000 I spent on other used shit!
And if you doubt my story talk to Rob at Nemesis he was there when Dan said the motor and tranny was used.

All I can tell you is that BUYER BEWARE. Many of these conversions will not pass inspection, and before you do business with Burnsville make certain it will pass inspection. If I had to do it all over again, I would do it with AEV because they run their company like a real business, and everything is tested to make certain it will pass inspection before it is brought to market.
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:06 PM   #2
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Dirty Laundry. Not Tech.

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Old 04-06-2013, 12:08 PM   #3
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Man! All I can say is Goooooodamn I would be pissed! That is a shit load of money for something you are unsatisfied with. I know it does not make you feel any better but here is South Carolina we don't have inspections any longer but we do have property taxes on vehicles. I would love to have a Hemi in my Jeep but not at that expense. It is a shame when you read nothing but praise in magazines only to learn in reality the work and professionalism is subpar. Finding my parts on another's Jeep would make me pretty damn murderous. I feel for you man. I hope Dan or whatever his name is reads this and learns that I, after reading this post, would give my money to AEV for such a conversion.
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:15 PM   #4
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It would be interesting to hear both sides. I've always known Dan to be a very honest and respected guy. That's been his reputation for many many years.
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:35 PM   #5
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I am a 60-year-old man and an honest man. I'm a CEO of a company and ever statement I've made here is true. I've given him every opportunity to solve these issues only to be screwed by him time after time. I even donated 1969 CJ jeep to him for charity. I had $7000 invested in that jeep and I just gave it to him. I wanted to believe that Dan was an honest man
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:36 PM   #6
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whoa!!! If this story is true, I would post this on EVERY Jeep site out there!

That seems to be the only way to get the point across and maybe get Burnsville to make good on what they have done wrong.

I am interested in hearing their side of the story though?

Sorry you wasted all that time and money!
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:49 PM   #7
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The motor having issues I think wouldn't bother me as much, since it seems most do have kinks that have to be worked out. But, if he's switching parts, that ain't cool not one damn bit. In fact it's stealing, like you said. Would still like to hear their side also


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Old 04-06-2013, 12:58 PM   #8
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Wow. I have never heard anything like this about them.
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Old 04-06-2013, 01:03 PM   #9
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So you spent 33k and got nothing in writing to back up what was to be done to the JK or time frame when it would be done? Well TBH you should of learned after the first time something was up with there customer service? Sounds like he found a cash cow and milked you for 33k!

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Old 04-06-2013, 01:27 PM   #10
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Interesting response from Phil Howell on JK Forum in case anyone's interested.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:01 PM   #11
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Interesting response from Phil Howell on JK Forum in case anyone's interested.
You can link it.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:06 PM   #12
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Here's some of what I posted over there . . .


Hold on there, JKcowtown! It sounds like you've had a terrible experience, but before you start maligning everyone in sight, check your facts.

I assume you're talking about me, Phil Howell at 4Wheel Drive&Sport Utility Magazine. Burnsville has never paid for any coverage. Yes, shops sometimes trade labor for features. This is called marketing and everything is above board. So readers will be "in the know," if a company pays for coverage, it's called advertorial and it's stated as such in the feature. We'll soon be running such a feature paid for by BFGoodrich.

As for your bumper ending up on my Jeep, that didn't happen. My old JK bumper is sitting on the floor of my shop here in Utah. Dan is NOT building a Jeep for me or any of my staff at 4WD&SU and hasn't been involved in our projects for a couple of years. It would be impossible for Dan to install my old bumper on your Jeep as he DOESN'T HAVE MY JEEP and hasn't for years! Yes, we've covered some of the vehicles he's built this past year, but they weren't connected to us in any way.

As I read your post, I was as taken in by your story as, I imagine, almost everyone here was. I was even going to call Burnsville to find out what was up with this. Then, I read the lies about me and the way I do business, which colors the rest of your story. What else is fabrication?


I since learned he was talking about three years ago and yes, our Blue Project JK was at Burnsville then. The bumper it went to Burnsville with was on it when it returned to us.

Most of you know me and know that when a shop or company supplies parts or services in exchange for edit, I tell it like it is. Even when it's negative (sometimes pissing them off). We've had no problems with Burnsville.

This guy may have a gripe with Burnsville, but when he says what he did about me, things I know aren't so, I have to take everything he says with a grain of salt.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:11 PM   #13
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This is all half truths and fabrication. And not something I will air out on a public forum. No way I did all this and people that know me know I do not operate this way. The last I heard was last sunday when Alton told me he was so happy with his jeep because it passed Texas state inspection. I do not know where the rest of this is coming from.
Phil Howell is the most honest man I know. Leave him alone. All I can think of is Alton is mad I would not put a free Pro Rock 60 front in his JK.
he has had his jeep to my shop 3 different times to get major work done on his jeep since 2009. There will not be a fourth. I am done with this here. Call me at the shop if you want to hear more.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:15 PM   #14
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Thanks Phil and Dan. Figured something was fishy. As is usually the case when an individual joins our community with the sole intention of bashing a company.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:25 PM   #15
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I couldn't imagine paying a shop $12,000 MORE to install a new engine after being promised something like passing inspection. Get the original one fixed correctly like you paid for, but don't give them more money. More money than brains?

OP, if you're not here to put anyone down, why are you calling Dan a liar, cheat, and thief? Hmm...

Finally, if all you have to do is write a story about BOR to get a Hemi Jeep, I'll start now. It will be a glowing review.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:49 PM   #16
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??? - Did this vehicle pass inspection or not?

If it didn't or doesn't you should give the man his money back!

I'm sure BOR stipulated and this gentlemen was assured it would pass inspection at the time of sale, that would be normal.

So if the vehicle does not pass inspection it would be BOR's RESPONSIBILITY to make it right or refund the cashola!
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Old 04-06-2013, 03:10 PM   #17
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I'm not a liar and Dan continues to tell his lies I never ask him for all-pro rocks 60 in front of my jeep he offered one to me in front of his wife and kid it Moab this year. I didn't ask one for free he's one that offered it and I turned it down.
I ended up with used motor and a rebuilt transmission in my jeep. That is not what we agreed to.
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Old 04-06-2013, 03:14 PM   #18
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Tried and tried to work things out with this man my jeep is not the only one that didn't pass inspection. Screaming lizard has one in their shop right now it won't pass inspection. Tell them Dan is That a lie?
Tried to talk to Dan on the phone he wouldn't talk to me.
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Old 04-06-2013, 03:14 PM   #19
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Are you saying there is a stock motor and transmission back in your JK $30k later?
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:10 PM   #20
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Just giving my 2 cents of Dan...

I spent well over 40K with Dan on my 6.4VVT. Any issues I had (which where all minor and mostly issues from manufactures kits) Dan stepped up and was shipping me over night parts ASAP.

The one PITA issue was Chrysler had a bad run of MDS solenoids on the first run of 2013 crates. A couple thousand miles from Dan's shop I noticed I was leaking oil. Two trips to a dealer, all new MDS solenoids and 2000 dollars in tech bills we where all fixed. Dan credited back to me EVERY LAST PENNY for parts and labor (well over 2800 dollars).

Dan is a very talented, honest and humble person who I would trust with my work any day of the week.
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:12 PM   #21
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I'm not here to bash Phil Howell, In fact I based a lot of my research and my decision to go with Burnsville Offroad on articles and Phil had written. Everything that I written in this posting is the truth and factual. I have apro rock 44 with reid Knuckles rcv Axles and abs air locks that I'm very happy with.
I am pissed off because I ended up with used motor and a rebuilt transmission.
And if you want to verify that you can call me I'll post pictures in this forum when I get back home from out-of-town. Rod Graft at Nemesis can verify that it use, because Dan amended it in front of him. I traded a brand-new 6.4vvt motor
With only 1200 miles on it .That will not pass inspection for a used motor and transmission. That doesn't sound right does it? Nobody in his right mind would do that.
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:19 PM   #22
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I purchased a BOR converted JKU with 12k miles on it.
Before I bought it, I called Dan and asked for info on the build. He was extremely helpful and encouraged me to buy it.
Since then, Dan offered to give me the latest tune, and Brian has proveded me with important updates. All free of charge.
The Hemi install is perfect and clean. No CEL. Runs awesome.

This is honestly the first time I have heard a complaint about BOR's integrity. And I've been around them (I'm from MN) for years.
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:37 PM   #23
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Dirty Laundry. Not Tech.
^^^^

This.
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:45 PM   #24
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He said she said, drama! I know in every lie you will find some truth. It seems to me that's a lot of money for a jeep that won't pass inspection. Bottom line, I would make good on the inspection requirement and call it a wash! Law is based on common sense. Someone's break-in the law.


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Old 04-06-2013, 05:04 PM   #25
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I just don't understand how changing and engine would make it pass inspection, i would think its a programing issue.
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