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What size LED light bar would you like to see tested?

  • 20"

    Votes: 42 42.0%
  • 30"

    Votes: 11 11.0%
  • 40"

    Votes: 9 9.0%
  • 50"

    Votes: 55 55.0%
  • Four strips of bacon

    Votes: 31 31.0%

LED Light Bar Shootout

36K views 101 replies 34 participants last post by  jtphoto JK 
#1 · (Edited)
UPDATE: Let's get a real shootout going. Any vendors that would like to participate that I have not contacted, please PM me and let me know what you can offer to test. Terms and conditions to be discussed.

UPDATE 2: Have contacted 406 YJ; Black Box Logistics; DOOKEY; jeepaddons-chris; Seward Offroad; JeepinOutfitters ; LifetimeLED ; Norm ; NFRs2000NYC ; Baja Designs ; Bulldog LED Lighting ; Sidetracked Offroad ; stephenwang ; kmd Garage; RigidIndustriesLED ; Motorsports2 ; taz223 (Exploration Outfitters) ; Daves Offroad Supply;

for support for LED light bar test. We'll see what comes back!

UPDATE 3: I have heard back positively from the companies in green, most willing to submit a 20" light bar to be tested. Orange has helped to find support.

UPDATE 4: Good comments and discussion in this thread. Let's talk actual tests to be performed, in this order:

1. Packaging, unboxing, first impressions. Plenty of pictures and video.

2. Light meter test: 9 test points, 5 tests, drop the high and low, average the 3. 45 total tests per light, keeping 27, for each bar. Units will be foot candela, similar to Headlight comparison done by usmcdoc14. Reflectors, black and white signs, etc., will be set up at each distance.

Pictures to accompany each of these tests from many angles.

These pictures could be taken with a Nikon D60 or a GoPro. If any amateur photographers have suggestions on camera settings or experience with capturing these kind of night images, they are welcome.

Lights will be mounted on a wooden structure, easily portable, roughly at bumper height for 20" bars and roof height for 50" bars.

3: Extended performance test. Leave lights on for a few days,
maybe a week, and see what happens. Check temperature of housings, lens, etc., look for non-functional LEDs, etc.

4. Oscillation test. Mount lights to an oscillating motor to simulate washboard roads and run it for a few hours and see what happens.

5. Durability tests. These will have to be approved by the vendors, as the vendors and I will have to come to terms. These tests can include underwater tests, frozen tests, park a Jeep on it tests, etc. I would like to test the lexan lenses vs. the tempered and toughened glass to see what withstands what.

6. Radio Interference. Self-explanatory, would test with walkie talkie, AM radio? Have to research this one.

After all this, do a final summary of the lights, comparing them to each other and, more importantly, claimed performance, and pick a winner.

Any suggestions for tests or alterations to these listed tests? Looking for input.

OP:
I put this together as a statistical shootout of LED light bars.

Vendors that can help to fill in blanks for their products will be appreciated.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArmPC9VSpnokdHJUZ215QXQ0b1RCQ2xtU0JuTW5UUVE&usp=sharing

Hope you like it and it's helpful, I threw it together pretty quickly but I hope it sparks a real comparo.

I chose to compare the 20" and 50" bars from most new companies. These seem to be the popular sizes. If you are interested in a 30" bar from Brand X, you can infer data based on the 20 and the 50 or find good performance from those and shop that way.

Some other sizes are included as they had features that made them interesting.

This will be a work in progress.
 

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#4 ·
Alex,
Thx for the effort here in getting something organized, I realize that it takes time, and you are spearheading here so kudos..I am curious on how the test will be performed, if you need any assistance as far as methods let me know.


I dont want to start off on the wrong foot here but I have a couple of concerns..I may have misunderstood your statement about Baja Designs, but it threw me off. Did you mean to say that they are the best LED out there? If so then they should be included in the test, not sure what you are basing that off of. Again, sorry if I misunderstood you.

and officially the Aurora product(if they have my patented optics) is under litigation currently. In short I would prefer not to have a shootout with a product that is illegal as it obviously will perform very close to Rigid products using our protected technology.
TrailWorthy fab's pro series is possibly infringing, unless they have the new non infringing optics, Todd is familiar with this issue.
for the record we have no affiliation with Aurora, never have.

Last thing, will the products being tested be returned?

thx again, hope this all makes sense.

I can be reached if need be, 480.655.0100, just ask for me. thanks.
Taylor
 
#6 · (Edited)
I was told that there is no more infringement since the optics have been changed. I have also contacted the customs office to make sure the products can be legally imported into the US. I have the information in writing from Aurora. Can you confirm that the infringement is STILL going on? It would be nice to have this issue settled once and for all. Also, do they manufacture components for your lights? Im just asking because the gaskets, lexan, screws, and housings look like they come from the same exact supplier.

P.S. Im not a dealer, and am not looking to sell these lights. I was just curious as basically Rigid and Aurora are the best bars on the market, so it would be interesting to know what's going on.
 
#5 ·
Since we primarily sell Totron bars, I'll be happy to add their info and you can put the prices off of our site if you want to do that for the comparison. With research, you'll find that many of the other "brands" of lightbars you have listed in the spreadsheet are actually Totron/Hanma lights that someone else is claiming to be the manufacturer of. If thats how they want to do business then more power to them. Here is the info for the Totron bars that we sell:

The information regarding lumen output, etc. is STRAIGHT from the Totron dealer catalog. Whether it is 100% accurate or not, I do not know nor do I claim to, but it is in print on my desk and that is where I'm posting the info from.

Single Row 20" (Spot or Combination Flood/Spot - Same):
4800 Lumens Output
60 Watt (12 5Watt CREE LEDs)
PMMA/Polycarb Lens
ExplorationOutfitters.Com Retail Price - $175.00


Dual Row 20" (Spot, Flood, or Combination Flood/Spot - Same):
10500 Lumen Output
120 Watt (40 3Watt CREE LEDs)
PMMA/Polycarb Lens
The spot patterns are actually 8 degree, the flood are 90 degree
ExplorationOutfitters.com Retail Price - $250.00


The information in your spreadsheet reflected their old style dual row bars with the glass lens and Epistar LEDs, the new style (at least the new style that we sell) are CREE LEDs and PMMA lenses.

I'll be happy to provide any further information regarding the Totron brand of lights, specifications, etc. Just wanted to provide updated information for what you had in your spreadsheet and also a few corrections.

Thanks for taking the time to put that information together for everyone, I think many people will appreciate far more than you would imagine, including myself.

Matt
ExplorationOutfitters
 
#8 ·
Because there is a swing in the performance and light output in the difference light bars and people don't want to spend money on something just to learn that saving themselves a buck got them a POS.
 
#9 ·
Baja Designs is too expensive to bother. They are not included. This will compare lights that are within the scope of the typical consumer.
Understand where you're coming from here on the price thing, the is a reason why they're priced the way they are. It'd be like leaving the JW Speaker headlights out of the headlight shoot out because they're double the cost of the Trucklites.

Something else to consider about the Baja Designs lights, they're the only company who will sell you the parts the rebuild them if they're damaged from use. IIRC I want to say that I think you change out the optics to better suit your needs for a specific event or wheeling trip.

Just something else to consider in the mix.
 
#12 ·
Understand where you're coming from here on the price thing, the is a reason why they're priced the way they are. It'd be like leaving the JW Speaker headlights out of the headlight shoot out because they're double the cost of the Trucklites.

Something else to consider about the Baja Designs lights, they're the only company who will sell you the parts the rebuild them if they're damaged from use. IIRC I want to say that I think you change out the optics to better suit your needs for a specific event or wheeling trip.

Just something else to consider in the mix.
I guess it wouldn't hurt to include BD. I think the main concern for everyone that doesn't have a light bar already is the value of the $500 bars vs the quality of the $1500 bars. That's why I think Baja prices itself out of a contest like this, and why Rigid would be the benchmark of how lights should perform. Either way, I'll shoot BD an email and look for interest.
 
#11 ·
There are the picture of light output 7.5'' Cree and 7.5" Epistar.
That's all well and good but none of us are staring into the light when we're using them. How bright it shines when you're staring at it doesn't really mean squat, it's how well they project light forward that really matters to anyone.
 
#14 ·
In regards to the BD thing-I agree... this should be a true LED bar shootout, not a "budget bar/knockoff" shootout.

I remember how well the DIY HID projectors stacked up against the JWs and TLs.

That was great because someone comparing TLs and JWs got just as much info as someone considering upgrading lenses or HID style. And for someone like me, it reinforced my decision to go the route I did.
 
#24 ·
I feel like we should include more USA MADE companies. I mean if we are talking price, my bulldog lights are much more affordable than other companies and are made in usa. That is one of the main reasons that I bought them. Everyone keeps talking about buying usa and wanting prices to be lower. Im just sayin, maybe give them an email and see if they will join? If we are going to make a comprehensive comparison here it should include every company out there, especially the usa ones. Baja should still be included as well, their prices may be higher but maybe it is because their performance is higher? I don't know and we won't if we don't test.
Send Bulldog an email and ask? I would love to see a full comparison of any company we can think of here.
www.bulldog-lighting.com
 
#33 ·
I grabbed this from Bulldog's website.

Bulldog-Lighting© distributes out of our San Carlos, CA warehouse. With the manufacturing experience of our team, we have worked closely with our exclusive factories to create a quality product that we are proud of. Effective February 2013, Bulldog-Lighting© will be MADE in the USA! From our extrusions, to our PCBS, we will be the first Off Road LED light bar company to officially be MADE in the USA!
Our primary focus is to continually develop TUFF, Affordable, Innovative products that are proudly MADE in the USA.
"Extrusions to pcbs", gave them a call too and they said they use US factories. So I guess not everything is made in china. Proud that I own Bulldog Lights for sure! Assembled and made are two different things, they say made not assembled like others do.
 
#35 ·
I grabbed this from Bulldog's website.



"Extrusions to pcbs", gave them a call too and they said they use US factories. So I guess not everything is made in china. Proud that I own Bulldog Lights for sure! Assembled and made are two different things, they say made not assembled like others do.
Now THAT might be worth a premium to me. Really hope they participate in this shootout.
 
#37 ·
I'm excited about the shootout. I used the last one in making my headlight decision and right now I'm looking for a 50" light bar and would love to see an unbiased comparison. Based on price I've been looking at Lifetime LED.
 
#38 ·
Awesome idea!

So I'm assuming that eventually you will gather lights from the manufacturers and do some sort of empirical testing of them?

Manufacture output "claims" are nice and all, but I think most people care more about how the light beam actually functions and the cost instead of what kind of numbers it's putting out right at the chip.

What is your test field setup going to be? Or is that up for discussion?

Also, :lol: at some of the vendors saying to "trust" them. I've made it a point to never base any decision upon the opinions or "facts" of the person who is trying to sell me something. :lol:
 
#41 · (Edited)
Hokay, so, if you need to tell the MFG exactly what you're testing, this needs to be where you start at the least. These will have to be non destructive tests most likely....

Output: You covered this slightly in your table. But similar to Doc's headlight shootout, you need to compare output at different ranges and angles.

Pattern: You should keep the patterns consistant, but still compare them. Show how one companies "spot" compares to anothers, etc.

Heat Disipation: This ones critical IMO. Heat KILLS. Period. So output should directly be correlates to heat disipation. Now, you can't measure the dissapation capabilities of the housing (thermal properties of the heat sink, etc) yet you can measure how hot the shit gets. The higher the output, the hotter it should get. The cooler the housing the better. If the housing/heat sink is proplery designed, the system should run cooler. You could even standardize it by comparing everything at an equvalent ratio (i.e. Divide the temp of the housing after 20 min of constant oporation by the total output at 500 ft, and that's your standard figure for every light)

Communications Interfearacne: Another big one. Presumably, the better design/construction of the board, the less comms are effected. So test basic trail comm's interfearance at varying distances when the light functions.

Beyond that, the material you have in the table is a good start. Compare the diodes, housing construction (material, thickness, weight), lense material... these can allow the ability to review shatter/impact/abrasion resistance, etc.

What you likely wont be able to test is anything really destructive, unless the MFG's are feeling up to it. So that leaves out submersion, impact testing, vibration, etc. However if they decide to let you break shit I can help you come up with more test (I do failure analysis for a living).
 
#50 ·
....
Output: You covered this slightly in your table. But similar to Doc's headlight shootout, you need to compare output at different ranges and angles.
Yep light meter(s) would have to be used at set distances and angles

....
Heat Disipation: This ones critical IMO. Heat KILLS. Period. So output should directly be correlates to heat disipation. Now, you can't measure the dissapation capabilities of the housing (thermal properties of the heat sink, etc) yet you can measure how hot the shit gets. The higher the output, the hotter it should get. The cooler the housing the better. If the housing/heat sink is proplery designed, the system should run cooler. You could even standardize it by comparing everything at an equvalent ratio (i.e. Divide the temp of the housing after 20 min of constant oporation by the total output at 500 ft, and that's your standard figure for every light)
Yes the number one killer / MTBF / light output reducer of light emitting Diodes is heat but a cooler housing doesn't necessarily mean that the diodes themselves are running cooler it could also mean that the heat transfer of the diodes to the housing is poor and that the diodes are actually running hot. To be meaningful you'd have to measure the actual temperature of the diodes and not the housing but that is not easy to measure and IMO not worth the effort for this test unless it can be done under laboratory conditions.
Maybe a running test for several hours using convection only cooling of the housing in an enclosed room with set position light output measurements before and after is within the means of the tester.
 
#45 ·
I'd be interested in seeing pictures more than anything. Like here is a fake deer at 100' with all the lights, here is a fake deer at 100', 10' off the side of the road with all of the lights.

Hard data is great, but to me when it comes to these lights a picture really is worth 1000 words. Distance, color, pattern, those seem to be some of the most important things that will vary a lot between lights.
 
#46 ·
Yes, couldnt agree more, that should be part of the comparison. But it has to be a fixed setup. Same identical camera settings under the same natural backround lighting conditions. Even the slightest variance can change the picture quite a bit.
 
#51 ·
Another very important note.

Scientific tests and graphs mean precisely diddly. I have Tom's headlights (bixenon projectors). While they may not score the best on the light meter tests and all that crap, when you park 3 jks together (one with Toms HIDs, the others with Trucklites and JWs) there is no comparison.

This test needs to be a PRACTICAL test, not a "scientific test." The tester needs to drive into an open field, stick some reflective markers at 25-250 yards yards and flip the switch. Photograph the results. The tester needs to be very knowledgeable with cameras, to get a true exposure, and leave that exposure for all the bars. That is what everyone wants to see, how much usable light there is, not how much light a bar produces.
 
#52 ·
Yeah agree shouldn't over complicate things for the test.

As for the photos, hope our tester has a good camera with manual mode for WB, ISO, Aperture and Shutter Speed.
I think one camera position suffices, I personally would say from above roof level to keep glare from the W/S and hood down.
50mm focal length would be nice but maybe a wider and narrower FOV as well.
Still would like to see some light meter measurements at different distances and off center axis angles to have at least some numbers to it.
 
#54 ·
They are only worthless if it's a pick the position that gives the best peak value at a given light is used like marketing does.
For here it would be look for values from different positions which do have a meaning if you know how to interpret them
 
#55 ·
That would technically evaluate the optics. Take the letter V for example. Suppose we measure the Rigid at the bottom point and the Bulldog at the bottom point. The rigid might be brighter. But 2" in either direction, the bulldog might be brighter. Same if you test the sides. It might be brighter at point X, but move 1" to the side, and now the other is brighter.

I think the people just want a plain and simple photographic comparison of the lights. A rifle range would actually be a perfect place to test it. 300 yards deep, markers, and sides to reflect. That would give an accurate representation of the spread of light and the USABLE light. Lux/lumen readings will not make one light "better" than another.
 
#56 ·
well the optics is a very critical part on a light or not?
Take a look at the headlight shoot out article for what is meant by the light metering.
Yes with only few data points at each distance you have a chance to hit a bright area on one but a dark area on another. More data points at each would make things more accurate but also increase effort and time for the testing significantly. Few data points with a plus minus angle range at each where only the highest value is recorded would be compromise proposal of mine.
As for accuracy of photography, well I believe that to this day people have a hard time to take photos that accurately represent on what they can see with their own eyes ;)
 
#59 ·
Exactly my point. The tests show that the JW speakers are the best headlights, when in reality, they are not. The JW speakers are not even close to the performance of a bixenon HID system. Im not going to get into detail here explaining why these LED headlights are subpar to an HID setup, but that test shows exactly what I mean. That test doesn't illustrate the fact that JW speakers illuminate 2.5 lanes AT BEST on the highway, where the bixenons illuminate 4 lanes. The test didn't show that at there is a significant visible difference at 50 yards in terms of light output. While it was a nice comparison, the reality is, the test results and real world results don't match, and I personally care about real world results. This is why "26500 lumens" doesn't mean squat to us. As for the photo part of it, thats why I said we need someone who knows photography, and is able to reproduce the correct "eye" exposure...basically a photo that matches what the eye sees.
 
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