I've been in touch with howe and am finally ready to get hydro steer on the road. He had asked me to send some specific measurements about my steering setup and one of them is total travel. I clamped a square on my axle tube and then pushed the steering all the way to one side. I then made a mark on the tie rod where the square touched it and then pushed the steering all the way in the other direction and measured the difference. I feel like the measurement is really low at 5.625" I have reid knuckles installed and the stops have not been ground at all. I do not want to grind them either as when I test fitted a 40" tire I had no rubbing at full lock but not by much.
I don't really feel like limiting the steering on a 2dr is that big of a deal with the short wheelbase but that # seems really low.
What is a standard measurement or any other reference measurements?
A 6.75" stroke ram is the correct size for a JK. I got a 7" ram and had to add about a quarter inch of additional stop.
Did you do this on jack stands with the engine off? If it's on the ground when you go to one side and let go of the steering wheel the steering swings back centered a bit. Sometimes you can also push the wheels a little past where the steering wheel wouldn't go any further.
It is a little low. Mine came out to 6.25" when I did the same thing in preparation for Howe but I had a stock 44 at the time so maybe the knuckles are having an effect.
At the end of the day, if that is all the travel you are getting to clear 40s, then that is what it is. This is the reason Howe asks for a measurement instead of shipping out a 6.75" ram...
I'd probably just go with getting a longer one, 6.75-7" and fine tune it for what you need. Here's a picture of what I did for adjustable stroke. Just weld a bigger washer, piece of tube, etc. to the jam nut and then assuming you have an adjustable tie rod clamp, the ram's stroke becomes fully adjustable by placement of the jam nut/rod end. Just need to get it approximately right with the size of whatever you weld onto the nut.
I think that is a bad idea if you are going the Howe route. They internally stop the box for the same amount of travel that you measure for them on the ram. Doing this would allow the box to try to push the ram further than it can adding unneeded stress on the system.
You measured exactly how Howe wants you to. If you think you can get away with more steering without the tires rubbing, then grind a bit off the stops and remeasure. If you're happy where it is now, give Howe that number. Howe builds a complete system, so what ever you do don't fudge the numbers. They'll make it so the stops, ram and box all stop at the same time.
Exactly, I am wondering how close they need to be. I'm trying to measure and mark as accurately as possible but say I'm off 1/16 on one or the other what happens
Do not get a longer ram than needed. Unless you enjoy replacing ball joints or damaging your steering box. If the ram is too long, when you are at full lock, it is going to put the full force into the steering regardless. That means all that force is transferring into the ball joints (if steering stops hit first) or the steering box if that is your limiting factor, which is common on a 2 door. Also transferring into the tie rod. your steering will think it is pushing around massive boulders just making a full lock turn at the grocery store.
The Reid knuckles were intentionally made with longer stops to allow the customer to dial them in. That said, your ram should be the limiting factor. I like to go slightly less than the throw of the steering to avoid any over-stroke.
Do not get a longer ram than needed. Unless you enjoy replacing ball joints or damaging your steering box. If the ram is too long, when you are at full lock, it is going to put the full force into the steering regardless. That means all that force is transferring into the ball joints (if steering stops hit first) or the steering box if that is your limiting factor, which is common on a 2 door. Also transferring into the tie rod. your steering will think it is pushing around massive boulders just making a full lock turn at the grocery store.
The Reid knuckles were intentionally made with longer stops to allow the customer to dial them in. That said, your ram should be the limiting factor. I like to go slightly less than the throw of the steering to avoid any over-stroke.
Or you could turn all the way passenger, collapse the ram completely, attach it to the tie rod, turn all the way driver, measure the difference between your ram ending there and your rams full stroke and add a spacer of that measurement onto the shaft.
You want the measurement of YOUR internal JK steering box stops.
They can all be a little bit different, so get that measurement as your starting point
I have a 2015 2 door. Stock knuckles. My lock to lock measurement was the same as the OP. I installed the PSC kit which comes with a 6.75" stroke ram. Followed instructions for ram install. The completed system appears to work fine and doesn't appear to be trying to "push" past the stops. It didn't make that sense that the ram stroke would be over an inch longer than stock lock to lock measurement. I assume that PSC knows what they are doing. I think I will give their tech folks a call and discuss see what they say.
David
It's the correct number because you have to remember the measurement you got from your stroke was a straight line. The ram stoke needs to be longer to take into account the arc at which it travels. It's not a straight line. I measured 5.75" on my stroke yet I run a 7" ram and I have only a 1/2" more travel on the ram (6.5" travel)
I have a 2015 2 door. Stock knuckles. My lock to lock measurement was the same as the OP. I installed the PSC kit which comes with a 6.75" stroke ram. Followed instructions for ram install. The completed system appears to work fine and doesn't appear to be trying to "push" past the stops. It didn't make that sense that the ram stroke would be over an inch longer than stock lock to lock measurement. I assume that PSC knows what they are doing. I think I will give their tech folks a call and discuss see what they say.
David
Well its all in the mail, im scared for when they call to give me the damage. I will let yall know what happens, I measured and measured it and came to an average of 5.680"
fwiw, i'm at those level of upgrades that are the stages where it has well moved-past a DD and has a new li$t of upgrades (for the upgrades),hydraulically-assisted steering being one of the top 3 on the li$t .
I don't mean to jump in but it's because of conversations just such as this one that this topic always leaves me to wonder if it's because of the choice of HW that was used or if the very nature of the setup for assisted steering is going to have everybody contending with quirks such as this?
I am inclined to use my replacement PSC steering-gear - when I do upgrade this year -with all PSC parts even tho it is more costly if instead using a WTO ram and maybe thierr other parts or other components to save a bit is gonna result in my having to fidget and or compromise with something as critical as my steering all the time.
I want a tite solution that leaves nothing to doubt and maintains the throw I set it for first and that is recommended by the manufacturer for that ram.
Am I living in a fantasy land thinking I can attain steering such as that if ido as you guys have. As politely as I can ask, have you mixed parts or is this all one kit from WTO or PSC that you're dealin with this?
I swear, unless it is heavy cast welding or gears, I take care of pretty much everything on my Jeeps . For first time in years this discussion thread popped," I could just pay some race buggy fab shop to set my steering-up for me when I do this..." in my stupid idea filled head.
:hide:
You want the measurement of YOUR internal JK steering box stops and YOUR axle/knuckles/draglink/tie rod/brackets/etc.
Forget what everyone claims works on theirs and just measure the damn thing on YOUR jeep
They can all be a little bit different, so get that measurement as your starting point and then you will know exactly how much ram you need and you can get it made to the exact throw.
If you don't want be down that long, then you'll have to take a best guess and wing it...
I dunno if you were asking me specifically anything or just having general conversation but....
I started out with no components of anyone's. I had a complete stock steering system down to the stock d30 axle and stock tie rod. Then came the idea for the LS swap and along with that came a cts-v accessory drive. At that point I still wasn't thinking about hydro steer. After that project got rolling I started to consider it but everyone I talked to was way down on the pump that comes with the accessory drive that I have and there aren't any aftermarket options because of the very short offset. I finally got in touch with howe and although he winced when I said what I had he said he could work it over and make it live. He also said to do any and all upgrades with the axle and sterring BEFORE I call him back and that he is the last guy on the line.
With that info I upgraded my axle, knuckles, and tie rod and then dialed in the alignment. He wanted me to make a mark on the pitman arm and then turn full lock and make a corresponding mark in the steering box housing that lined up with the mark on the pitman arm and repeat that process full lock the other way. He said he is going to take my stock box and freshen it up, do all his tricks and set the internal stops to match my exact allowed steering. This is also why he wanted as accurate of steering throw measurements as possible. He is going to try to set me up where my steering box and ram max out at the same time that my knuckle hits it's stops.
I'm also getting a cooler from him, his filtered resivoir and whatever he is doing to the pump. He mentioned something about opening it up and putting -10 fitting on it for the inlet side. He really harped on keeping the pump fed and to use large ID line to feed it. Also he went into some specifics about how he was going to set the pressures that went over head and I glossed over and tuned out briefly. Either way it was a bunch of tech jargon that I wasn't familiar with but he seemed to know like the back of his hand. He said I'm gonna be roughly into him around 2k. But no exact figure until the work is done and I still have to buy my own lines.
It's definitely not the cheapest but there weren't any other options really unless I wanted to fight bugs using a hodge podge of different brands.
ALASHA 's explanation is correct , I'm in the middle of the same ....so if you speak with the folks at Howe they will tell you the same thing he did just with a few different words moved around , but pretty much the same .
Go with what the people at Howe tell ya , things vary and it could save you a sector shaft or a set of ball joints plus your TRE's will thank you too.
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