Rubicon Certification

[Isajeep]

Does anyone have a good link to what the requirements are to be a Rubicon? I bought one a few months ago and i was recently told that i dont have a Rubicon, just a beefed up Wrangler with a sticker.

[Dr.Dirty]

Dana 44 fromt and rear
Electronic sway bar
front and rear lockers
diff transfer case gearing

[enigmaverse]

Here's a link to the model specs comparison table.

http://www.jeep.com/hostc/vsmc/vehicleSpecModels.do?modelYearCode=CUJ201006

The big Items:

- Front and rear HP D44 axles
- Front and rear electronic tru-lok lockers
- Electronic Swaybar Disconnect
- Rock Rails
- 32" "Off Road" tires
- 4:1 transfer case

[jeeperjkj]

Here's a link to the model specs comparison table.

http://www.jeep.com/hostc/vsmc/vehicleSpecModels.do?modelYearCode=CUJ201006

The big Items:

- Front and rear HP D44 axles
- Front and rear electronic tru-lok lockers
- Electronic Swaybar Disconnect
- Rock Rails
- 32" "Off Road" tires
- 4:1 transfer case

Yeah, that's about right. It should be noted, though, that you could swap all those from a Rubicon and you still wouldn't have a "Rubicon" (but you'd still have a bad ass Wrangler X or Sahara!).

I'd say the only requirement to have a Rubicon is a VIN that was manufactured as a Rubicon. You could pull out the front axle and make it 2wd (yeah, it'd be blasphemous, but you could do it) and it'd still be a Rubicon... technically. ;)

[Slippery]

On a JK, the 6th letter in the VIN is "6", or it's a Rubiclone.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16495083/Jeep-VIN-Number-from-1945-to-2009

[BeerMonkeY]

does your jeep have "axle lock" and "sway bar" buttons on center dash by the traction controll button? if it does, and they actually do work then you have a legit rubi.

[Isajeep]

I was told that the VIN wont identify that it is a Rubicon or not. I was told they will always come back as a Wrangler. I can say for sure that it does not have lockers or 44 axels though. I love jeeps, but am not a "car guy" per say. Would you say i deffinatly have beef with the dealership i bought it from if the paperwork says "Rubicon" and it doesnt meet specs?

[Jeep School]

does your jeep have "axle lock" and "sway bar" buttons on center dash by the traction controll button? if it does, and they actually do work then you have a legit rubi.

Not necessarily. Some X's could be ordered from the factory with sway bar and a rear locker.

Easiest way, as mentioned above, 6th digit on an 07-09 Rubi is 6 (followed by a 4 for 2-doors or a 9 for 4-doors). Second easiest way--look under the front of your Jeep at the front differential. If its profile is symmetrical and round, it's an X (see first pic). If its profile is non-symmetrical, with a slight rounded point on the bottom of the housing, then you have a Rubicon (second pic, white Jeep on rock).

[Slippery]

I was told that the VIN wont identify that it is a Rubicon or not.

That would be incorrect. All JK Jeep Rubicons are "6" in the 6th position.

I have seen quite a few Jeeps on Ebay with Rubicon on the hood that were not Rubicons.

What year is yours, and what is the VIN?

[terrahawk]

I can say for sure that it does not have lockers or 44 axels though. I love jeeps, but am not a "car guy" per say. Would you say i deffinatly have beef with the dealership i bought it from if the paperwork says "Rubicon" and it doesnt meet specs?

Then the dealership fucked you. What axles does it have?

[Slippery]

I can say for sure that it does not have lockers or 44 axels though.

I wouldn't call it 'specs", but the Rubicon package, a known package for off road capability that includes:

Dana 44 axles front and rear with electrical lockers,
special wheels,
special transfer case,
electrical disconnect sway bar,
Different suspension, etc,

which is a list of items that would cost you $5000 + to add later.

If the Bill of Sale says Rubicon, I'd be taking it back, and demanding all monies returned, or the next stop is the State Board of Licensing for Auto Dealers and my attorney.

[enigmaverse]

x2. That aint right, if a dealer knowing sold you something not as described

[Kingpin]

I've seen some bogus Rubicons on used car lots...sticker on the hood of an X model...but I've never heard of a Jeep dealer pulling that nonsense. That seems like you could get yourself in some serious trouble. I won't get into who buys a Rubicon without knowing what that entails...why would you shell out the extra money if you don't know that you specifically want the Dana 44 frt, lockers, sway bar, and transfer case? Is this just a sticker thing?

[Big A]

I was told that the VIN wont identify that it is a Rubicon or not. I was told they will always come back as a Wrangler. I can say for sure that it does not have lockers or 44 axels though. I love jeeps, but am not a "car guy" per say. Would you say i deffinatly have beef with the dealership i bought it from if the paperwork says "Rubicon" and it doesnt meet specs?

Go see Jason De Monto at Airpark Jeep in Scottsdale. He's a member here and works at a dealership.

[Dawzz]

I was told that the VIN wont identify that it is a Rubicon or not. I was told they will always come back as a Wrangler. I can say for sure that it does not have lockers or 44 axels though. I love jeeps, but am not a "car guy" per say. Would you say i deffinatly have beef with the dealership i bought it from if the paperwork says "Rubicon" and it doesnt meet specs?

Bigger question is who is 'telling' you all of this?

They missed the mark about VIN

[Dancin Dan]

Bigger question is who is 'telling' you all of this?

They missed the mark about VIN

A stealership's selling Rubiclones? I'm thinking this dealership needs to be flamed (Figuratively, of course) in full public view so everyone knows to avoid them like the plague in the future.

What craptastic car salesman is giving you this advice?

[Dawzz]

Didn't read it fully stopped at the vin wont identify it which is wrong.....

my bad
If you got hosed post up the dealer and contact the mentioned salesman above
he should be able to confirm what the actual specs are with the vin

[Isajeep]

Call me a hack, if you will. I didnt really "need" a Rubicon. I dont intend on doing any rock crawling. i just wanted something that wouldnt leave me stranded in the field when i'm hunting/camping/etc. I knew i wanted another Jeep after i drove my old Cherokee Sport into the ground. I wanted a wrangler this time with a little lift and some mud tires, but that is about as far as i had thought it through. The fact that it was "supposedly" a Rubicon made it look all the better and since im in a better spot financially than i was 5-10 years ago, i figured, what the hell? I bought it at Sunset Ford in Glendale used. They were the ones that told me that the VIN doesnt specify. They were also the ones who wouldnt really negotiate price too much because it was a "Rubi". They also wrote up the tiket as "Rubicon". Im not sure they did it knowingly. I doubt they but "GT" on the side of their stock V6 mustangs, but nonetheless...... they will be hearing from me.

[RuBob]

It makes me wonder if they got dooped on it as a trade-in. However, I think they can look up that kind of vehicle information if they entered the VIN.?..

Either way, you have a legitimate beef and I think the laws will be on your side.

[jeeperjkj]

Yeah, that sucks, too. I'd think it wouldn't matter what they gave for it on trade, you'll probably fair well with it if you just mention going to a lawyer.

Unfortunately, you'll probably have to write that dealer off your list of go-to's (not that it matters if that's how you'll be treated) 'cause you're definitely not gonna be on their Christmas list if you force them to return your money.

No biggie. Find an honest dealer and do business elsewhere.

[The Joker]

It makes me wonder if they got dooped on it as a trade-in. However, I think they can look up that kind of vehicle information if they entered the VIN.?..

Either way, you have a legitimate beef and I think the laws will be on your side.

tell them "I paid for a Rubicon, now give me a Rubicon or you can talk to my lawyer and the BBB". :D

[HITMONEY]

Call me a hack, if you will. I didnt really "need" a Rubicon. I dont intend on doing any rock crawling. i just wanted something that wouldnt leave me stranded in the field when i'm hunting/camping/etc. I knew i wanted another Jeep after i drove my old Cherokee Sport into the ground. I wanted a wrangler this time with a little lift and some mud tires, but that is about as far as i had thought it through. The fact that it was "supposedly" a Rubicon made it look all the better and since im in a better spot financially than i was 5-10 years ago, i figured, what the hell? I bought it at Sunset Ford in Glendale used. They were the ones that told me that the VIN doesnt specify. They were also the ones who wouldnt really negotiate price too much because it was a "Rubi". They also wrote up the tiket as "Rubicon". Im not sure they did it knowingly. I doubt they but "GT" on the side of their stock V6 mustangs, but nonetheless...... they will be hearing from me.

Fawwwwwwwwk That!!

If they sold you a Jeep and called it a Rubicon, I can almost guarantee you paid the premium that Rubicons bring as well.. meaning you got over charged by quite a bit I would imagine.

[Isajeep]

This dealer is already on my shitlist. The just had the Jeep i wanted, or thought i wanted. I have a Mustang that blew an engine at 38k miles. They told me my warranty was up 2k miles ago, so kick rocks. They offered to knock $1500 off a new engine which wouldve made my bill only $4500. Granted, i didnt purchase it there. I bought it in another state.

[Isajeep]

yup, just looked at the ppwk again. Rubicon, Rubicon, Rubicon

[gpwpat]

Go get them.

Rubicon is alot more than a sticker and tires.

and you paid for a rubicon. Rubicon's cost mor emoney because of what they come with. You can get an X for probably 8K less that what they charged you. You could do alot with 8K

[jeeperjkj]

Did you buy this Jeep NEW or used? What model year is it?

[TEXASKEV]

Call me a hack, if you will. I didnt really "need" a Rubicon. I dont intend on doing any rock crawling. i just wanted something that wouldnt leave me stranded in the field when i'm hunting/camping/etc. I knew i wanted another Jeep after i drove my old Cherokee Sport into the ground. I wanted a wrangler this time with a little lift and some mud tires, but that is about as far as i had thought it through. The fact that it was "supposedly" a Rubicon made it look all the better and since im in a better spot financially than i was 5-10 years ago, i figured, what the hell? I bought it at Sunset Ford in Glendale used. They were the ones that told me that the VIN doesnt specify. They were also the ones who wouldnt really negotiate price too much because it was a "Rubi". They also wrote up the tiket as "Rubicon". Im not sure they did it knowingly. I doubt they but "GT" on the side of their stock V6 mustangs, but nonetheless...... they will be hearing from me.

You're not a hack. But the Jeep that you now have is probably pleanty good for what you will be using it for. A stock X is really capable and it sounds like yours has some upgrades. So in my view its just a matter of the $$. You paid what guys? A good $5k or $6k for the D44s, lockers etc that you didn't get. They owe you $$. And yes they may be so stupid that they took it as a trade thinking that it was a Rubi (most dealers know nothing about jeeps) but that isn't your fault. Good luck.

Like someone above mentioned - run it by Airpark in Scottsdale and see Jason. He'll give you the lowdown. You can tell him the numbers that you paid and he can tell you if you got ripped or not. That's my .02 worth of advice.

[daggo66]

Did you buy this Jeep NEW or used? What model year is it?

It would be safe to assume "used" since he bought it at a Ford dealership. I don't believe he has said what year it was though. It's important to know if it's a TJ or JK. Then you can have the exact list of specs it should have before you go into battle with them. It's one thing if they took it in this way, but a whole different deal if they put the sticker on it. If they did it you have a pretty good case for fraud.

[TXROCK]

I had similar experiences with dealerships in Arizona (I use to live there too!)....here is a link to some law firms in Arizona who handle dealer fraud.

http://lawyers.findlaw.com/lawyer/firm/Auto-Dealer-Fraud/Phoenix/Arizona

I had one dealership in Sierra Vista Arizona try to sell me a 4 door 2004 stripped down Grand Am with 4 cylinder for $22,000....I went to Pheonix and got the same car with a 3.8L V6, alloy wheels, Monsoon Stereo system w/6CD changer, tinted windows, power steering/locks/windows, keyless entry remote start car alarm, the works.

Definitely time to see if you can get someone to help you get out of what you were illegally sold if they try to resist making it right. :beer:

[jeeperjkj]

It would be safe to assume "used" since he bought it at a Ford dealership.

Yeah, I missed that part.

[benmar2000]

WOW!! I would be upset.. Yeah.. I would take it to a Jeep dealership.. Have them print you out a build sheet based on your VIN and then got back to the place you bought it and show them.. If they don't come clean, then that is when I would go to a lawyer..

And remember.. DOCUMENTATION!! DOCUMENTATION!! DOCUMENTATION!! That is the key to winning a legal battle.. :beer:

[Dancin Dan]

^^Yeah, that^^

Seriously though. Fuck those guys for not doing THEIR homework on a vehicle THEY'RE selling. That sucks that you got hosed out of a Rubi, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Sunset Ford in Glendale will make every effort to make this right if the PBB gets wind of the misprepresentations made in selling Jeeps.

Seriously, read the Wenzel thread. Some of those guys scare the hell outta me.

[jdale75]

WOW! Please keep us updated on this one. This should be a great read!:beer:

[calemasters]

Does anyone have a good link to what the requirements are to be a Rubicon? I bought one a few months ago and i was recently told that i dont have a Rubicon, just a beefed up Wrangler with a sticker.

The Nevada Automotive Test Center (NATC) can certify vehicles as "Trail Rated". A trail rated vehicle must meet minimum standards for traction, ground clearance, articulation and water fording.

All Jeep Rubicons are Wranglers, but the Wrangler Rubicon has specific suspension and drive line components as mentioned above that gives the stock Wrangler Rubicon an off road advantage over the stock base Wrangler.

http://www.autotrucktoys.com/jeep_grand_cherokee/images/M55157317AB.jpg

[daggo66]

The "trail rated" badge on a Jeep is nothing more than a badge.

[pearl-drum-man]

The "trail rated" badge on a Jeep is nothing more than a badge.


Agreed, though he is referring to the "process" Jeep now uses to "prove" the trail worthiness of its vehicles. They used to do it by actually running them through the Rubicon Trail, but stopped that process. Obviously the JK still did it as part of the early press for it.

[benmar2000]

Agreed, though he is referring to the "process" Jeep now uses to "prove" the trail worthiness of its vehicles. They used to do it by actually running them through the Rubicon Trail, but stopped that process. Obviously the JK still did it as part of the early press for it.

That is true.. As a matter of fact, one of the first commercials for the 07 had 2 women driving part of the Rubicon trail in a 4dr..

[pizzaman]

this sucks! definitely let us know how this turns out!

sounds a lot like another thread on here where some dealership had sold some 2010 2wds as 4wd because of a sticker fawkup

edit: sticker as in window sticker

[terrahawk]

Take pics of your axles and post'em up so we can figure this out.

[Joe Diver]

Isajeep...where you at with this??????

[BeerMonkeY]

any update on this? id like to hear what they said

[lohchief]

Yeah...this has my attention too.

[joes-jk]

im pretty sure i was the guy to get under ur jeep at chase bank when i was talking to u about it. it all started cause i parked next to u then u happend to be leaving at the same time i was. then we got talking, i told bout jkowners and then i looked at ur body armor bumpers and i was looking to see if they would work with my or-fab skid plate, and when i was looking at ur cross member i didnt see the sway bar motor. then i looked at ur front axle and relized u had a d30.

but Isajeep, ur jeep is sweet, dosent matter if its an x,sahara, or rubi. its a sweet jeep, got awsome front and rear bumpers, winch, 35's. ur jeep is tricked out.

but still i would go after the dealer if they led u on by saying its a rubicon. not because ur jeeps not awsome (cause it is awsome), but just because they knowingly lied.

[jacktuttle]

Not necessarily. Some X's could be ordered from the factory with sway bar and a rear locker.

Easiest way, as mentioned above, 6th digit on an 07-09 Rubi is 6 (followed by a 4 for 2-doors or a 9 for 4-doors). Second easiest way--look under the front of your Jeep at the front differential. If its profile is symmetrical and round, it's an X (see first pic). If its profile is non-symmetrical, with a slight rounded point on the bottom of the housing, then you have a Rubicon (second pic, white Jeep on rock).

1J4GA69. . . . Seems to check out with my jeep. 4 Door Rubicon.

[ZOSO-Green]

Yeah...this has my attention too.

X3 - Were on your side, good luck and keep us posted

[Isajeep]

Latest update: So, ive been going back and forth with them and of course they dont want to pay me anything, but they are softening up. They DO realize they messed up big time. The problem now is settling on a figure that is fair. I went to the Jeep dealership near me who told me that it would probably be 12k+ to add all the upgrades. They also said that they would strongly recommend I dont do the upgrades because it would be an electronical nightmare and i would be back bitching every couple of weeks. So what i need now is a list of do-able upgrades that would make my Jeep closer to a true Rubi. Any recommendations without getting into the electronic/cpu issue? I was thinking the DANA 44 axels and upgraded crank case, but what else should i request? (no, the Ford dealership is not going to do the work. They just want to get their own seperate quote to make sure i am not pulling these figures out of the sky)

[Isajeep]

Pics

[benmar2000]

Latest update: So, ive been going back and forth with them and of course they dont want to pay me anything, but they are softening up. They DO realize they messed up big time. The problem now is settling on a figure that is fair. I went to the Jeep dealership near me who told me that it would probably be 12k+ to add all the upgrades. They also said that they would strongly recommend I dont do the upgrades because it would be an electronical nightmare and i would be back bitching every couple of weeks. So what i need now is a list of do-able upgrades that would make my Jeep closer to a true Rubi. Any recommendations without getting into the electronic/cpu issue? I was thinking the DANA 44 axels and upgraded crank case, but what else should i request? (no, the Ford dealership is not going to do the work. They just want to get their own seperate quote to make sure i am not pulling these figures out of the sky)

That would be transfer case.. NV241OR 4:1 is what you need and don't forget the electronic sway bar disconnect.. :beer:

[BenDrinken]

that's F'd just get the money. hope everything works out for you... don't forget the laywer rought. that spelling doesnt look right but you know what I mean.

[BBirish]

that's F'd just get the money. hope everything works out for you... don't forget the laywer rought. that spelling doesnt look right but you know what I mean.

lawyer route? lol yea you might just have to bring this to court. you paid for a rubicon, make sure you a rubicon :beer:

[Isajeep]

Ya, that is on the table... I am just going to them first to see what they are willing to do to resolve the issue

[jeeperjkj]

Let me just say that if you can get them to give you ANYWHERE NEAR $12k, then you are the man!

Heck, that'll get you a set of D60's locked and ready to roll + more.

[Isajeep]

They wont. i told them today that i would go away for 8k. 2/3 of the quote to upgrade

[Xtremjeepn]

So according to Jeep.com 2010
Unlimited X 4x4 is $24,990
Unlimited Rubicon is $32,840

Difference is $7,850
Parts difference on the "BASE" model is. (Things added for Rubicon according to the Jeep "key features" list, not a complete list) Red highlights are the ones that everyone compares normally.
-4:1 RockTrac Trasfer case
-2 E-lockers
-Next-Gen D44 front
-Sirrius radio
-368 watt 7 speaker stereo
-1 year of Sirrus service with traffic.
-Premium cloth seats
-Height adjustable drivers seat
-Stain repellent fabrics
-17" Rubicon wheels
-32" Rubicon tires.
-Full length center console.
-Remote keyless entry
-Fog Lamps
-Security alarm
-Rock Rails
-Cruise Control
-Leather Wrapped Steering wheel.
-Electric sway bar.
-Rubicon suspension
-2 front and 1 rear tow hook.

[BenDrinken]

Thanks BB guess I should go to the drunken thread now. LOL

[Slippery]

They would be better of to buy it back, give you every penny, and resell it. They could claim an honest mistake as they received it that way, and they are not a Jeep dealer.

If they are willing to give you $2000 I would be surprised, but hope you get what you want.

If you are EVER going offroad with it, having the 4:1 transfer case and Dana 44's WITH lockers is a HUGE difference, and I would demand they pay for those upgrades. Electronic swaybar is not a huge deal like the transfer case and axles with lockers. HUGE resell difference too.

I wonder if they made a killing on it.:shaking:

[jdemonto]

I guess I missed this thread! The OP called me and I gave advice, hope he follows it!:smokin:

Jason

[Isajeep]

Issue resolved. They cut me a check for 5k. I still dont have a Rubi, but i love my jeep. I'm probably going to add the Dana44 axles and the upgraded transfer case.

[Isajeep]

Thank you to everyone for your input and advise. Anyone in the Phoenix area that want to go riding, let me know. (nothing too extreme seeing as i dont really have a Rubi :P)

[JohnnyWalker]

What a journey you had... Effin' dealers.

[SEPA JK08]

Nice to know they made good. With 5 grand you can make a dent into some decent upgrades, although not Rubicon-esque, but still a capable jk.

[pearl-drum-man]

Issue resolved. They cut me a check for 5k. I still dont have a Rubi, but i love my jeep. I'm probably going to add the Dana44 axles and the upgraded transfer case.

Glad they did the right thing. While a front D44 would be a nice addition, I probably wouldn't bother with the rear unless you found a great deal on one. Also, see if you want/need the 4:1 ratio of the Rubi t-case, some actually prefer the stock 2.73:1 ratio based on the wheeling they do.

[benmar2000]

Glad you got it resolved.. :cool::beer:

And like pearl-drum-man suggested.. Before you go out and start buying a bunch of parts.. Make sure you know what parts you want or need for your wheeling habits.. You find out that the t-case you have is just right for your needs.. And as always, if you have questions about something.. Just ask away.. We are more then happy to help out a fellow Jeeper.. Especially one that has been on a journey before even getting dirt in the rims.. :beer:

[Slippery]

Doesn't sound like you are a hard core crawler, so don't spend it if you don't need to. I would put the money away. If you ever break an axle, use it to upgrade.

[The Clam]

Doesn't sound like you are a hard core crawler, so don't spend it if you don't need to. I would put the money away. If you ever break an axle, use it to upgrade.

This sounds like the best advice to me. Wheel it like you want to and if you do end up breaking something, you've got money for the upgrade.

Glad you got the issue resolved!:beer:

[daggo66]

I bet this is happening more than anyone realizes. I was just behind a deep water blue JK with temporary dealer tags. It was definitely a used car sale based on the tags. I was thinking it was an '09 when I was behind it because it had the tow hook on the driver side rear. It had Goodyear SRA's on 17" wheels and black shocks, so I was expecting to see an "X" or possibly a "Sport" when I pulled next to it. To my surprise there was neither and it had a "Rubicon" decal on the hood! My turn came up so I couldn't get a peek at the front axle.

[jdemonto]

Thank you to everyone for your input and advise. Anyone in the Phoenix area that want to go riding, let me know. (nothing too extreme seeing as i dont really have a Rubi :P)

Good job and glad to see the dealer fixed the issue. If you want to wheel you know where to find me.

Jason

[JKNorth]

Glad the dealer did what they could to do right by you.

Early on you said you don't do hard core off-roading, you just wanted it to get to your hunting/camping sites. If that's true, don't be too concerned about the Rubicon extras.

I've got a 2008 Sahara that I bought because the deal was too good to pass up. A reputable dealership went bankrupt because the accountant had been embezzling for years. It was spring 2009. Chrysler themselves were going bust and wouldn't take the 2008 stock back.

I paid thousands under invoice with no additional fees (not even freight). So I was coming in $15k less than sticker on a Rubi for a brand new Jeep. That buys an awful lot of aftermarket parts, and pays for an awful lot of repairs.

I do go off-roading, and the Sahara has been great. Your Jeep is tricked out nice, whatever trim level it started out as. You got some coin back, don't sweat it any more, just go out and enjoy it!

[aldo90731]

WOW, great read! Glad everything worked out.

Now go ENJOY your JEEP! :D

[RubiCajun]

go here: http://jeep.avtograd.ru/VIN/vin_en.asp. type in your VIN number, it will tell you exactly what you have....:beer:

[Loki646]

Hell 5k is not a bad start at all, I'd lean towards checking out a Dynatrac Trail 44 and a rear ARB air locker...find the right shop and you could probably get set up damn good.

[MR LIKA]

I think you got a great deal, Rubicons suck anyway, my sahara can beat the crap out of any rubi, bring it on guys.:innocent:

[SmurfJK]

go here: http://jeep.avtograd.ru/VIN/vin_en.asp. type in your VIN number, it will tell you exactly what you have....:beer:


You sure? Because I just typed in my VIN and it said I have a 1980 with a 4.2 and a 3spd auto.

[Dr.Dirty]

Mine came up right :D

[aldo90731]

You sure? Because I just typed in my VIN and it said I have a 1980 with a 4.2 and a 3spd auto.

LOL so it WORKS! I bet you didn't know that's what you were driving... :laughing2:

[SmurfJK]

Fooled again. Damn. :(

If anyone wants to give it a shot:

1J4AA2D14AL......

[gold knight]

Fooled again. Damn. :(

If anyone wants to give it a shot:

1J4AA2D14AL......What kind of number is that? Mine starts with 1J4GA391787L......and it came right up but just told me it was a Wrangler X extended body..

[Mule'Con]

The sixth digit should be a "6" for it to be a rubicon from the factory. My Vin is 1J4GA6......

[JPK]

What they did also earns them a criminal fraud charge and a civil fraud suit. In my state, civil fraud brings tripple damages, meaning that whatever your damges are - here the price of the jeep or at least the pricing difference between an X and a Rubi - you would be entittled to three times that amount.

That plus turning them into Ford, BBB, etc, is a LOT of leverage. I wouldn't settle for just a return of my $'s without a hell of a fight. I would want my time and ANY other conceivable expenses paid for (like your insurance bill for the jeep) PLUS the cost of the phony and any difference between what I paid for the phony and what I'd have to pay for a real Rubi.

Good luck. Maybe contact your attorney first and then make the crooks (or fools if they were unaware) pay for the attorney too.

JPK

[Sunburst Sahara]

he resolved the issue and its over and done with........ might wanna read the whole thing before posting....



congrats on getting them to settle up, and that JK looks killer as is, I agree with just saving the money and sitting on it till you break and need to replace/upgrade stuff.

[ed_nigma]

...Granted, i didnt purchase it there. I bought it in another state...
and you expected them to fix it out of warranty?

[Joe Diver]

As stated, it's over and he's happy.

But I have to say....posts like this just goes to show why we have such a litigious society today. People seem to think they're over entitled and due ridiculous damages. Reading this sort of statement sickens me. Sounds like a person who, just because the restaurant is busy and the food is a little late, wants it comp'd and free dinner for a year. Jesusfuckingchrist.

Maybe, just maybe, if they were doing it intentionally, creating the fake Rubi's themselves, and just happened to get caught. But I doubt it here. I'm willing to bet they (the dealer) got suckered and had no clue, and when the fraud was exposed they ponied up a fair $$$ to make up for it. Of course I don't know this for sure, but I'm certainly not going off the deep end without knowing all the facts first.


What they did also earns them a criminal fraud charge and a civil fraud suit. In my state, civil fraud brings tripple damages, meaning that whatever your damges are - here the price of the jeep or at least the pricing difference between an X and a Rubi - you would be entittled to three times that amount.

That plus turning them into Ford, BBB, etc, is a LOT of leverage. I wouldn't settle for just a return of my $'s without a hell of a fight. I would want my time and ANY other conceivable expenses paid for (like your insurance bill for the jeep) PLUS the cost of the phony and any difference between what I paid for the phony and what I'd have to pay for a real Rubi.

Good luck. Maybe contact your attorney first and then make the crooks (or fools if they were unaware) pay for the attorney too.

JPK

[daggo66]

Exactly! Also before spouting ridiculous things about what you will get in a lawsuit, remember that it has to be PROVEN first. It would have been difficult to prove that the dealer "willfully" committed fraud. The general public has no idea that the Rubicon is more than a sticker on the vehicle. Have fun getting a judge, let alone a jury of 12 understanding what is involved. The questions would be endless. Did the purchaser know the differences a Rubicon has and intentionally buy it because of them? And if he did, why didn't he check those things before the purchase? Look at all the soccer moms driving Rubicons. Do you think any of them have a clue what a locker or Dana 44 is?

I think the outcome of this was fair for both parties involved. In the end it was probably the dealer who got screwed for taking in what he thought was a Rubicon and over paying for it. Even then the only thing he probably lost was his profit. In the end I think everyone came out even, except the shyster who traded it in to the dealer.

[JPK]

Exactly! Also before spouting ridiculous things about what you will get in a lawsuit, remember that it has to be PROVEN first. It would have been difficult to prove that the dealer "willfully" committed fraud. The general public has no idea that the Rubicon is more than a sticker on the vehicle. Have fun getting a judge, let alone a jury of 12 understanding what is involved. The questions would be endless. Did the purchaser know the differences a Rubicon has and intentionally buy it because of them? And if he did, why didn't he check those things before the purchase? Look at all the soccer moms driving Rubicons. Do you think any of them have a clue what a locker or Dana 44 is?

I think the outcome of this was fair for both parties involved. In the end it was probably the dealer who got screwed for taking in what he thought was a Rubicon and over paying for it. Even then the only thing he probably lost was his profit. In the end I think everyone came out even, except the shyster who traded it in to the dealer.

First, when I posted I thought I had read the whole thread, but was clearly mistaken. OOPS.

Second, read my post, I didn't say sue the dealer, only use the threat of a lawsuit, the BBB, Ford, even criminal complaint as leverage.

Third, I am happy for the OP, in that he is satisfied and loves his Jeep. But, lets face it, he got screwed out of about $7-8k because the $5k he got doesn't: 1. refund the sales tax on the over payment, 2. make up near the price differential, 3. compensate him for his time, even if the dealer erred and it wasn't fraud, 4. get him the Rubi.

It also doesn't square his situation with his insurance company. Has he insured a Rubi? For what purchase price? What happens when he totals his Jeep (lets hope that doesn't happen of course,) he gets FMV replacement cost. But for what? An X he paid $7-8k too much for or for the FMV of an X? Or the FMV of a Rubi, when HE knows it isn't a Rubi - and the insurance company will check when it is time for them to come out of pocket!

Going further, if the OP barrowed to purchase the Jeep, he has his own issues now, some minor, some major, in the descripition of the collateral, especially if the loan was from a federally insured institution.

On the legal issues, any of you who took issue with my post attorneys? I am, though I don't actively practice. There was nothing to prove to earn the ~$12 in damages other than that his Jeep wasn't a Rubi and that the dealer sold him a vehicle that they held out as a Rubi, at the cost of the Rubi. And then the retail price difference.

For fraud, the OP would have had to prove that they knew it wasn't a Rubi.

On that issue, given the myriad of differences, some entirely visual, like the shape of the differential covers, the electric sway bars, the dash switch for the electric lockers, it is difficult to fathom how they could have been merely mistaken. And how unlikely is it that people in the business of buying, trading and selling of vehicles wouldn't check what they are buying. Think they don't know how to check VIN numbers? They bought a second hand Jeep, think they didn't put it on a lift?

Think getting a jury to buy into the idea that a bunch of used car salesmen were slimy is difficult? Yea. I'm sure the Jeep was owned by a little old lady who only used it to drive to church on Sundays too...

Being overly litigiuous means suing over minor s--t, $12-13k isn't minor s--t, especially as a % of the cost of the vehicle.

JPK

[Joe Diver]

LOL...whatever dude...hope you feel better.

[H3ATH3N]

Does anyone have a good link to what the requirements are to be a Rubicon? I bought one a few months ago and i was recently told that i dont have a Rubicon, just a beefed up Wrangler with a sticker.

A few ounces of vinyl.

[daggo66]

On that issue, given the myriad of differences, some entirely visual, like the shape of the differential covers, the electric sway bars, the dash switch for the electric lockers, it is difficult to fathom how they could have been merely mistaken. And how unlikely is it that people in the business of buying, trading and selling of vehicles wouldn't check what they are buying. Think they don't know how to check VIN numbers? They bought a second hand Jeep, think they didn't put it on a lift?



Caveat emptor. Why wouldn't the buyer do the same thing? There is a degree of responsibilty on both ends. Makes sense to me why you "actively practice."