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: Home protection weapons


usmcdoc14
05-16-2008, 05:34 PM
Sorry, pulled this from another thread and felt it needs its own.


If you buy a shotgun and you're living in an apartment, I recommend buying bird shot ammo for it. Remember, you'll be living in a place where people are on the other side of the wall. Bird shot is good for close range self defense (under 30 feet) and won't overpenetrate like buck shot will.

B. S.

Birdshot WILL NOT stop a person, it is NOT guaranteed to kill in any way or form. Do NOT shoot to wound and thats all you are doing. Do NOT load birdshot for home defence unless its against squirrels or something :laughing:
#4 BUCK or larger, get reduced recoil or "tactical" buck if you fear over penetration.


My recommendations:
Pistol. Easier to handle in the close confines of a home. Natural point and aiming and easier to keep by the bed.

Short shotgun loaded with #4 buck or larger. Shotguns are NOT "scatterguns" so yes, you have to aim :laughing: you will only have a spread of 8-10" at "indoor" distances.

AR-15 or other 5.56/223 carbines loaded with anything but "FMJ/ball" rounds. Gets some nice varmint rounds or something HP.

and a GOOD rail mounted light.

avoid: gimmicky bullets, lasers (they also let someone know how nervous or bad of a shot you are) plastic folding stocks and anything picky with its ammo.

oh and a little league aluminum baseball bat :devil: GREAT indoor weapon :laughing:

stewp97
05-16-2008, 06:33 PM
I'm sure most people already know this, but in my CCW class they recommended we use hollow points for personal protection. A lot of damage when it hits the body and less chance of it penetrating a wall. They also recommended not using self loads. That way when you are sued by the family of the honest hard working individual that just fell on hard times and wanted to feed his family the attorney can't try to convince the jury that you loaded your own special hot man killer rounds.

Any good thoughts on how to hide an AR-15 next to the bed in a spot that the kids (or wife) won't find it :thefinger:

peter

WTF_LOL
05-16-2008, 06:53 PM
Any good thoughts on how to hide an AR-15 next to the bed in a spot that the kids (or wife) won't find it :thefinger:

peter

Just put a lamp shade on it, no one will be the wiser :D

MarcM
05-16-2008, 07:40 PM
Dont forget revolvers! If you are going to have a firearm sitting in a drawer for long periods of time, I would choose a revolver because you would not need to worry about if the slide is lubed. Dont have to forget about a safety, either. I would hope, though, that whatever you decide on for self defence, that you practice with it regularly and keep it maintained.

usmcdoc14
05-16-2008, 08:24 PM
Any good thoughts on how to hide an AR-15 next to the bed in a spot that the kids (or wife) won't find it :thefinger:

peter

yes. Make (don't buy, friggen over priced) on of these and use a cable lock to secure it to the bed frame when not at home
http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/the-back-up.jpg

I can also do custom duracoating to match most bedspreads :grinpimp::laughing:

stewp97
05-17-2008, 06:51 AM
yes. Make (don't buy, friggen over priced) on of these and use a cable lock to secure it to the bed frame when not at home

I can also do custom duracoating to match most bedspreads :grinpimp::laughing:

Can you do it in lacy pink :laughing:
That's actually a pretty cool idea though.

Just put a lamp shade on it, no one will be the wiser :D
With my luck the wife would try to turn it on a put a couple rounds through the roof :D

peter

PhilD
05-17-2008, 08:30 AM
Any good thoughts on how to hide an AR-15 next to the bed in a spot that the kids (or wife) won't find it :thefinger:Unless you live in a rural area with no neighbors I wouldn't use an AR as a home defense weapon, the likelihood of penetrating a wall/window/etc is high and then you have bullets flying around out there in the big wide world to do some damage.

usmcdoc14
05-17-2008, 10:05 AM
Unless you live in a rural area with no neighbors I wouldn't use an AR as a home defense weapon, the likelihood of penetrating a wall/window/etc is high and then you have bullets flying around out there in the big wide world to do some damage.

5.56/.223 penetrates through walls and stuff a LOT less than you would think with non-ball rounds.

PhilD
05-17-2008, 04:09 PM
5.56/.223 penetrates through walls and stuff a LOT less than you would think with non-ball rounds.Yup, you are most probably right, I keep thinking of FMJ's. Even handgun ammo is going to over penetrate at times, as often is the case it comes down to shot placement and knowing your backstop. I know an handgun is only something you use to get to your rifle, but without adequate training/practice with a rifle I think a shotgun or even a handgun is a better option for most people for home defense.

mcnaught6
05-17-2008, 10:25 PM
this is my home protection, with 0 buck, and a custom magazine extension:


benelli M4:

http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/large/m4PGSynthetic12Ga.jpg

p.s. sorry the pic is so big, i just grabbed it off the benelli site.

Ruskin
05-18-2008, 04:58 AM
I, like many folks, live in a situations where bullet penetration is a big concern. Either other family members in the house or other families close by. I've bought home defense rounds (specially manufactured rounds that are suppose to deliver the power, but not over penetrate). I've only seen them for handguns. Any of you ever consider these?

Yup, you are most probably right, I keep thinking of FMJ's. Even handgun ammo is going to over penetrate at times, as often is the case it comes down to shot placement and knowing your backstop. I know an handgun is only something you use to get to your rifle, but without adequate training/practice with a rifle I think a shotgun or even a handgun is a better option for most people for home defense.

stewp97
05-18-2008, 07:49 AM
Unless you live in a rural area with no neighbors I wouldn't use an AR as a home defense weapon, the likelihood of penetrating a wall/window/etc is high and then you have bullets flying around out there in the big wide world to do some damage.

An AR is not something I would probably use for home protection. Let's face it, in a home invasion, you are talking about what, a 3-5 second confrontation? And in most homes, you are probably talking about a confrontation that is no more that 10 feet away (and probably a lot less) by the time you see the intruder. I would want something I could grab and shoot without much thought or time. Also in my living situation, all my family members live on the same floor so penetration is a huge concern for me. I'm sure an AR works great for home protection. I just don't think it would work well for my situation. For the record, I have only handled an AR once and did not have the opportunity to shoot it. Obviously it works well for our military though!

peter

nam6869usmc
05-18-2008, 03:04 PM
At my finger tips in Bedroom(Glock 19 & 26),....that all she wrote("Goodnight, Irene").
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/nam676869/DSCF0012-9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/nam676869/AMM-456.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/nam676869/xremgs1.jpg

dougnpj
05-19-2008, 08:03 AM
Sorry it’s just a cell phone picture.

Ruger P-90, no safety, .45 hollow points and it is cleaned and lubed once a month if it needs it or not.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc37/dougnpj/P-90.jpg

Bigjerm
05-19-2008, 10:01 AM
ok so the whole home defense thing started in the other because I asked. So lets get on topic, I need a gun for home defense. Ok really not a home, an apartment. Do I NEED it? Probably not but I would hate to find out I do need it at 3 a.m.

I live on the top floor, one apartment to the left, one below and one across the corridor. Obviously a round going through the wall is a huge issue. Not to mention itís only a 1000 sq ft apartment so from where I step out of my room to the threat is not very far away and the wall not much further. I need suggestions for both gun and rounds, my .22 rifle is not going to cut it in this situation and I dont really feel the .357 is idea for this situation either.... I also need one my girlfriend can shoot if needed. We both would go to the gun range on a regular basis (because what good is it if you can shoot it?).

PhilD
05-19-2008, 11:18 AM
I need suggestions for both gun and rounds, my .22 rifle is not going to cut it in this situation and I dont really feel the .357 is idea for this situation either.... I also need one my girlfriend can shoot if needed. We both would go to the gun range on a regular basis (because what good is it if you can shoot it?).Here's my take on it FWIW.

Anybody can shoot a revolver, they require little maintenance, and pretty much always go bang. The manual of arms is pretty simple and there isn't much to get wrong when the SHTF. A .357 revolver can shoot .38Special, which is likely to be a lot easier for a female to shoot.

A Glock is also very simple to operate and pretty much idiot proof. Hot 9x19 and .40 rounds will do the job well and are very easy to shoot.

While a 1911 style gun is my favorite to shoot, the manual of arms is a little more complex and under high stress fine motor skills may not be what they could be, and unless you have practiced sufficiently to gain good muscle memory, there is the potential for something going wrong.

A lot comes down to personal preference on both handgun and ammo choice. Marginal rounds like 9x19 will do the job just fine, especially in hot loads, shot placement is more important than caliber choice in many instances. That said .45ACP is a great round choice and will do the job very well in just about every instance.

Practice, practice, and more practice is the biggest thing in my book. I don't meaning just shooting bullseye either, but shooting on the move, shooting weak hand as well as strong hand, low light, jam clearing, etc. Many of these skills can be practiced at local IDPA matches.

As to ammo, I'd stick with quality JHP, and practice with it along with your usual practice ammo. The problem with much of the exotic personal defense ammo, like Glaser and Mag safe is that it is so expensive that most people don't practice with it, so you don't know well it will function in your forearm, and at a time of high stress you are shooting an unfamiliar ammo with an unfamiliar fell. Good JHP is a better choice in my view, but if you are going to choose some exotic ammo due to wall penetration concerns etc, then I'd suggest only loading 1 or 2 rounds of it followed by some quality JHPs.

BigO
05-20-2008, 06:21 AM
I agree that bird shot is not guaranteed to kill and self defense means eliminating the threat to your life on the first shot. Back in my apartment days, I had the same questions about what's "best" for self defense in an area where there are other people around. I've read *many* comments about bird shot vs. buck shot. When using buck shot, aim at the bad guy's center of mass and pull the trigger. When using bird shot, shot placement and distance becomes way more important. Dare I say...aim for the neck/face? (a tongue in cheek comment). Then follow up with buck if you're not dealing with Joe Burglar looking for a DVD player?

There are other things you can do to give yourself an edge when living in an apartment. What if you're sleeping and a loud noise wakes you? I had a neighbor knock over a chest of drawers once and wondered what the hell was that? If it was someone coming through the door on the other side of the apartment, I would have been screwed because I delayed taking action. Get yourself a door alarm for your front door. It makes an ear piercing sound and if someone's coming through your door, there's no mistaking what's going on.

Other things to look at...where is the front door in relation to your bedroom? Is there a long narrow hallway separating the two? Where will a stray round go if you fire down that hallway and miss? Is the hallway narrow enough to make it difficult to miss a person coming down it?

I also recommend spending the money and getting a bright flashlight that attaches to the shotgun. Don't look at something like a Maglight that throws a dot of light on a wall. Get a SureFire. It will light up an entire room and temporarily blind whoever is looking at it.

What I'm getting at is that there are other things you can do and look at to make your choice of ammo a lot easier. I don't remember the specifics of what I kept in my shotgun back then (too many years and too many beers), but I kept bird shot in the chamber and buck shot in the tube.

bad day
05-20-2008, 08:25 AM
good point coming from every one. My recommendation will always be something simple (.38 revolver, Glock) that you are willing to practice with. Some guns require more practice than others i.e. a 1911. My number one tip...Get a gun that fits your hand well and points naturally. By the way while I generally suggest a pistol/revolver for personal defense, I believe a properly loaded shotgun is an excellent option. On the subject of over penetration in the home, my home is layed out so that any conflict would occur directly between my room and my boys room. Taking that into consideration, I practice(yes practice) moving and choosing shooting lanes inside my home. Always thinking about the angles while you're calm will help when you're not

OnlyInMyJeep
05-21-2008, 08:36 PM
I still think that in the situation described a 20 or 12 guage pump shotgun loaded with #4 high brass shells is the best option. It is enough of a weapon to stop or kill an intruder/attacker and yet should not penetrate two thicknesses of drywall with enough force to do any damage on the other side. Any other round I know of that have enough power to be an effective defensive round (given the panic of the situation even a 22 short can kill if it hits right) is strong enough to have some power when it gets through the drywall. This does exclude special rounds designed not to penetrate through walls but as was mentioned you are 100 times better using the same loads both for target pratice and real use.

JR
06-04-2008, 03:30 PM
My home protection:

1. 9mm Glock 17
2. 100lb+ German Shepherd sleeping next to my bed
3. Picking up a used SW40VE next week

Dustoff '68
06-04-2008, 03:41 PM
Have several handguns strategically placed about the property, to include this one for up close encounters of the very worst kind...


1072

JR
06-04-2008, 03:47 PM
I also have an attack squirrel

http://www.kjasud.pl/niemoje/bazooka.jpg




And of course...a trunk monkey.

http://www.djp3.net/codexperductum/archives/trunkMonkey.jpg

Ruskin
06-04-2008, 05:40 PM
Have several handguns strategically placed about the property, to include this one for up close encounters of the very worst kind...


1072

What is that Dustoff? What's barrell lenght and is that available?

Dustoff '68
06-04-2008, 11:08 PM
What is that Dustoff? What's barrell lenght and is that available?


6.5" barrel, Remington 870 12 Guage...need NFA permit...it's a bear getting one of these...some states don't allow such a short barrel on a shotgun...check with your local Class II, or III dealer what's involved.

kerryp
06-16-2008, 08:36 AM
Whew, whats the kick like on that? Can't imagine shooting that one handed ( I have small hands and would need that other front grip).

I assume the folding handle locks and is your slide for reloading. I LIKE IT. Bet I can get one of those in Texas. We like guns here.

Dustoff '68
06-16-2008, 09:25 AM
Whew, whats the kick like on that? Can't imagine shooting that one handed ( I have small hands and would need that other front grip).

I assume the folding handle locks and is your slide for reloading. I LIKE IT. Bet I can get one of those in Texas. We like guns here.


Not much...after a six pack and a valium or two...never know what hit 'ya:D:beer:

Grover
07-12-2008, 06:38 PM
Not much...after a six pack and a valium or two...never know what hit 'ya:D:beer:

lmao. it is worse than the 8" saiga 12ga you better save some of that for the next day to forget how bad your hands hurt.

2K1TJ
07-13-2008, 09:19 AM
Here's what I use. Mine doesn't have the bayo though. That's a Knoxx Specops recoil reducing stock.


http://img.geocaching.com/user/0cc2ad6d-e6b2-4fa7-85fd-8e669f7bc0d6.jpg

gt3073b
07-20-2008, 03:58 PM
I have an AR-15 that I wouldn't use for home defense (24" barrel) unless someone gets to my wife's 12ga before we do, but anyway....

Varmint rounds won't over-penetrate much of anything. They are designed to go in a small animal and fragment, transferring all of their energy rather than blowing through. Just for fun, my dad and I put some cardboard a couple feet past a target we printed on cheap printer paper. The Nosler Ballistic Tip began to fragment once it hit that single sheet of paper, and the cardboard was peppered with nothing but pinholes. The majority of the holes went clear through the cardboard, but many of those pinholes still had tiny pieces of the copper jacket still in them where they did not penetrate the back skin of the cardboard! Sure they transfer their energy well, but in a very shallow wound area with a greatly reduced chance of organ damage (unless you look like JR's attack squirrel).

The good: not going to do much of anything past a piece of sheet rock.
The bad: not going to do much of anything past a heavy leather jacket...

If you are using an AR for defense, I'd use the soft point bullets where the jacket ends about 1/8" short of the tip, and hollow points if you are really worried about over-penetration.

Bryan.

Steel Blue X
07-30-2008, 03:24 AM
In home self defense? I use a 120lb pitbull/bull mastiff mix and a 45lb Lab/Sheltie mix. raised them both from 4 weeks old, weaned them and taught them to answer the door no matter who knocks. They calm down when told to after the door is answered by a family member.

As back -up to them I have a .22, .32, 9MM, .45, double barrel shotty, Moss 500, and the Bushmaster. I know the dogs will protect their pack and they dont over penetrate walls. :D

I would get a dog and a gun. And a Bat like Dustoff said.

JBLANDSHARK
07-30-2008, 05:33 AM
Who needs a bat? After you have fired all the rounds in the 12 gauge, thats your bat.

PhilD
07-30-2008, 07:54 AM
Who needs a bat? X2 In the same vain as not bringing a knife to a gun fight, don't bring a bat to a gun fight either ;)

Dustoff '68
07-30-2008, 04:07 PM
What bat? Did I mention a bat?????????

PhilD
07-30-2008, 05:58 PM
What bat? Did I mention a bat?????????You must have done, either way you should now change your username to Batoff ;) :D

Steel Blue X
07-31-2008, 02:44 PM
It was USMCDOC that mentioned the bat, my bad. Either was the bat is still a good up close weapon that does not penetrate walls. I'll still trust my dogs to do the job of keeping the bad guys out though.:chihuahua:

Dustoff '68
07-31-2008, 08:31 PM
It was USMCDOC that mentioned the bat, my bad. Either was the bat is still a good up close weapon that does not penetrate walls. I'll still trust my dogs to do the job of keeping the bad guys out though.:chihuahua:


You confused me with that wrinkled old jarhead....sheeesshhhhhh:thefinger::D

StubEXrube
07-31-2008, 10:33 PM
kerry, or Phil...or any other Texas residents researching this 870, please share any findings relating to the NFA permitting or other info from a class II/ III dealer. I would happily give up my 357, my 380, and my 9mm...to own one of these. Bet theyre not cheap either. I will research as well, but if you find any related info, please post. Thanks.

jkdrone
08-01-2008, 08:08 AM
I keep my baby eagle 9mm loaded w/ 11 hydrashocks (sp?) at the ready. Living in downtown Houston isn't always a cakewalk. I like the BE b/c it's easy to service, has only one action to take before pulling the trigger (which I have practiced well-enough to make it an ingrained part of lifting the pistol), and because I can hold a 2" group at 21 feet, which is about 1/2rd the distance from my bed to my front door (there is only one wall in the path).

However, I'm also starting to like this Glock 19 that my mother brought over the other day, and once I'm comfortable with a proper hollow point to use in it, and that I can fire it as accurately as the BE, I'll probably replace the BE with one. I like the fact that the safety requires no extra steps besides aiming and firing.

!c

Steel Blue X
08-01-2008, 04:54 PM
You confused me with that wrinkled old jarhead....sheeesshhhhhh:thefinger::D


Damn Dustoff, I'm sorry to have forsaken a fellow Soldier like that. I've dropped and given you 50 already for penance.

No offense USMCDOC, I know a Marine and you would have a similar conversation were the roles reversed. I chewed some Somali dust with Marine FAST Teams in the Mog, was an honor to roll with them.

:beer::beer::beer: on me!

Big A
08-01-2008, 06:24 PM
I have an SA XD9SC (CCW), S&W 411 .40, WInchester 12ga.

Nuff said! ;)